Volume 70 No. 6 June, 2024

Editor’s Notes

Are you thinking of showing an exhibit at the ANA’s WFoM in Rosemont this August? The deadline to submit an application for each exhibit is June 14. Applications can be submitted online. The rules for exhibiting are located online – among the very basic rules, all collector Exhibits must be set up by 1pm on Tuesday, August 6, and cannot be removed before 4pm on Saturday, August 10.

Paul Hybert, editor

Minutes of the 1264th Meeting

Session I of the 1264th meeting of the Chicago Coin Club was called to order by First Vice President Melissa Gumm at 12:06 PM CDT, Saturday May 4, 2024. This was an in-person only meeting held in conjunction with the Central States Numismatic Society 85th Anniversary convention in Schaumburg, Illinois. Attendance at the meeting was 35, including 10 guests.

First Vice President Melissa Gumm called for a motion to have an abbreviated agenda as customary for meetings during numismatic conventions. The motion was made and approved.

Melissa gave a warm welcome to all the CCC members, the guests, and our featured speaker Debbie Walter.

Secretary Scott McGowan explained the membership process to join the Chicago Coin Club and announced one application for a first reading. Scott called for any guests who wish to become members of the club to complete a membership application and submit to him with dues so it could be read before the meeting recess. Scott then completed the first reading for membership for Dennis Tucker of Roswell, Georgia. Dennis collects U.S. Philippines and medals, he is a member of the ANA, ANS, TAMS, and CWTS among other numismatic organizations. Dennis was referred by John Riley and Bob Leonard.

Being an abbreviated agenda there was no Old or New Business, Minutes approval, or Treasurer’s report reviews.

Melissa Gumm then introduced Debbie Walter, the featured speaker, for the meeting’s program, Memories of My Father Hans Walter, and His Part in Operation Bernhard.

Before Debbie stepped to the podium, club president John Riley gave a warm welcome and expressed the excitement and appreciation for the club in having Debbie’s presentation.

After the presentation and a slide show featuring many photos of Hans Walter, Melissa presented Debbie with a CCC Speaker’s Medal and an ANA education certificate.

CCC member Dale Lukanich who facilitated Debbie’s participation had examples of certified 5-pound British notes, both real and counterfeit from Operation Bernhard, for attendees to see and compare.

At the conclusion of the meeting, on May fourth, each person in attendance received a CCC “May the Fourth be with you” souvenir card featuring the Club Logo, the 1264th meeting (session one) designation, and a likeness of Darth Vader with the four red stars of the Chicago flag replacing the word “Star” of the “Star Wars” logo. Each souvenir card was numbered. Additional copies of the limited 100-print run are available for purchase. The souvenir card was designed and donated by CCC member Mark Wieclaw.

Melissa announced upcoming events for the club members, then called for a motion to recess the meeting until May 8, 2024, for session II of the 1264th meeting.

Session I was recessed at 12:57pm CDT.

Session II of the 1264th meeting of the Chicago Coin Club was called to order by President John Riley at 6:55 PM CDT on Wednesday, May 8, 2024. This was an in-person and online meeting, held at the Chicago Bar Association. Attendance at the meeting was 17, including four guests in person, and 18 online for a total of 35.

Club Meeting Minutes and Treasurer’s Report

The April 2024 meeting minutes were approved as published in the Chatter, both in print and on the CCC website. Treasurer Elliott Krieter presented the April period treasurer’s report detailing revenue of $300.00 (Dues) and expenses of $68.00 (Chatter Expense) for a period total of $232.00. The report was approved by the membership.

New Members and Correspondence

Secretary Scott McGowan completed the second reading of the membership application for Franck Z. KoKo, followed by club membership approval.

Old Business

  1. Melissa Gumm gave a brief update on CCC at the CSNS, including club table activity (dues payments, medal sales, and more), the CCC meeting at convention had 35 attendees, including 10 guests, and a great presentation on Operation Bernhard by Debbie Walter.
  2. Melissa gave a report for Dale Lukanich on the ANA WFoM Host Committee, asking CCC members to promote Page opportunities to youth, and for CCC members to please sign up to be an ambassador.
  3. Committee Reports:
    1. Special Projects - Mark Wieclaw indicated no update.
    2. Hall of Fame - Deven Kane indicated no update.
    3. Legacy Project - Dale Lukanich reported that a schedule has been created for NNP to assist with interviews on Wednesdays in May and June, and that interviewees are being scheduled.
    4. Audit Committee - Mark Wieclaw reported that the committee met on Sunday, May 5th, and all the club’s provided financial records were found to be in order.
    5. Auction Committee - has yet to meet.
    6. Banquet Committee - Has yet to be established. Melissa asked for a few club members to come forward to assist with banquet venue recommendations.
  4. The club reviewed the list of CCC members who had not paid 2024 dues as submitted by the club treasurer. Two members indicated they wished not to renew, the remaining eight have not responded to communications. The club voted to drop these ten individuals from CCC membership. Dropped members can be reinstated by bringing all past-due membership dues current and a club vote to reinstate.

New Business

  1. It was reported that new CCC member Joshua Benevento got married, to which the club offered their congratulations.
  2. A moment of silence was observed for 32½ year member Robert (Bob) Weinstein. who passed away April 21, 2024.
  3. CCC member Dale Carlson presented a brief review of the American Numismatic Association (ANA) and its value to the CCC membership. Dale, being an ANA club representative, is required to make a presentation on the ANA to several clubs as part of an initiative called the Triple Crown. Dale’s presentation featured the many benefits the ANA offers including the Numismatist magazine, the Money Museum in person and online, and the numismatic library which is a lending library for research. He also discussed the ANA origins, it is a not-for-profit organization, and it was chartered by President Taft in 1912 although it had been founded in October 1891. Dale reminded everyone that ANA membership allows for free entrance to the annual National Money Show® and the annual World’s Fair of Money®; 27,000 collectors belong to this great organization. Dale said that while telling the CCC about the ANA is like preaching to the choir, he hopes any CCC members who do not belong to the ANA will consider joining.
  4. John Riley announced there will be an in-person CCC board meeting on May 15, 2024, at 6:pm CDT. Any CCC members with issues to be discussed should get them to a CCC board member to get them on the agenda.

Featured Program

Laurence Edwards on The Soho Mint: Matthew Boulton, James Watt, and the Age of Revolutions. Following the program, First VP Melissa Gumm presented Laurence with a CCC speaker’s medal and ANA educational certificate.

Show and Tell

Deven Kane announced the evening’s six Show & Tell exhibitors.

President John Riley adjourned the meeting at 8:36pm CDT.

Respectfully Submitted,
Scott A. McGowan, Secretary

Robert James Weinstein Jr. (1960-2024)

Robert James Weinstein Jr. of Steger, Illinois passed away on Sunday, April 21, 2024; he was 63 years of age. Robert (Bob) became member number 1023 when he joined the Chicago Coin Club in September 1991.

Bob was born in May, 1960 in Chicago where he attended Nathan Hale Elementary Grade School and graduated from John F. Kennedy High School, which is located in the Garfield Ridge neighborhood on Chicago’s southwest side. He was a member of Messiah Lutheran Church, at which he was both baptized and confirmed.

Bob received training in Industrial Maintenance, welding certification, and electrical hydraulics – skills which would serve him throughout his life. Bob spent 12 years working for Balmoral Park, an equestrian facility south of Crete, Illinois. He served as a broadcast engineer in the television and motion picture industry as well. In 1996 Bob designed and set up the electronic system for the film Chain Reaction with Keanu Reeves. He also engineered the first program on Oxygen, an Oprah Winfrey Network, and assisted with the digital upgrade at Chicago’s United Center.

For the past 8½ years, Bob was a Senior Technician with Chicago’s Museum of Science and Industry, in charge of their interactive exhibits. In the Museum’s Transportation Exhibit, he maintained the 3,500 square foot centerpiece, “The Empire Builder Line” – a model railroad with twenty engines moving on 1,400 feet of track, showing the continental journey from Chicago to Seattle. This exhibit is also called “The great train story.” This has always been one of Chicago’s most enviable jobs.

Bob’s numismatic interests started at the age of seven. One evening in 1967, his interest in history and Greek and Roman mythology converged with his mother’s job as a waitress to spark his lifetime interest in numismatics. Sittng at the kitchen table, helping his mother count her tips, he saw an unusual dime. The coin’s portrait appeared to be the Roman god Mercury; his mother confirmed it was indeed a Mercury dime, the type of dime common when she was young. A few days later the family was at a Woolworth’s store and Bob took notice of the Whitman coin folder display. With several blue folders in hand, Bob announced to his mother that he was going to collect coins. His mother looked at his father, laughed, and said he would be bored and forget about it in six months. By the age of ten, Bob’s interest in ancient coins began when he noticed a Littleton Coin Company ad advertising the silver bull and horseman coin from India for one dollar. Bob thought. how could he not buy this? The ad also contained language he did not understand. It said “Coins will be sent on approval.” His mother explained this to him and to his 10-year-old mind the thought of gettng a bunch of coins every month to look at sounded great. To his mother, not so much. After about two years the cost of returning ever larger quantities of coins proved too much, and his mother cancelled the service.

Bob collected and studied ancient coinage seriously since 1984. In the 1980s and 1990s he put together a substantial collection of rare, early AD-dated European coinage. By the late 1990s, he began to collect Indo-Greek and Indo-Scythian coinage, after reading several articles by Bob Senior in the Journal of the Oriental Numismatic Society. This remained his primary interest, and in 2012 he sold his early dated collection to finance the purchase of several Indo-Greek and Indo-Scythian rarities. His collection approached 1,000 pieces and he hoped to one day have the collection published, as it contains a substantial number of unique and very rare coins not present in other published collections.

Bob was active in many numismatic activities and organizations. In addition to the Chicago Coin Club, Bob was an ambassador volunteer for the ANA World’s Fair of Money convention when it was in Chicago, and he was a member and past board member of TAMS (Token and Medal Society).

Bob also gave several featured presentations during Chicago Coin Club meetings, including 2005’s Small Change: Epidemic Counterfeiting in 4th Century Roman Britain and 2020’s Coinage and History of the Apracas and the Indo-Parthians. He also gave many show and tell presentations, on topics ranging from Chicago Tokens to ancient coinage.

Bob is survived by his wife Loreen Weinstein nee Widdows, sister Anna Lawley, nieces Nita (Jim) Witasik and Donna Rhoads, grand niece Sara Witasik and grand nephew Benjamin Tout.

Memorial gathering was Friday, April 26, 2024 from 5:00-8:00pm at Smits-Steger Memorial Chapel, 3045 Chicago Rd, Steger, Illinois 60475. For further information, visit

Speaker’s Wor[l]d
Memories of My Father Hans Walter, and His Part in Operation Bernhard

a presentation by Debbie Walter,,
to our May 4, 2024 meeting
(reported by Melissa Gumm)

Debbie began by saying it is easiest to start at the beginning. For her father Hans Walter, survivor of the Sachsenhausen concentration camp and Operation Bernhard inspector, that beginning is in Germany in 1921. He was the first-born son and adopted by his stepfather along with his sister and had two step-siblings. Hans was one to help with the family, but also a trouble maker – although he seemed to be able to talk himself out of trouble, so as not to have his parents know. One of the things that kept his parents from learning of the trouble he was getting into was learning to forge their signatures early on for school notes. He began doing this for friends which lead to forging grades and papers.

As a young man Hans enjoyed cycling, doing races and routes to deliver his forged documents. He was also an amateur tennis player always looking to impress the blond-hair blue-eyed girls. It is one such tennis adventure that led to his journey into the Nazis concentration camps. Young Hans fell asleep on the train which led to his capture and began his journey through five concentration camps, beginning at Auchwitz which held largely Polish Jewish and Christian prisoners. Hans was there with his friend Peter Edel; when they found themselves in line to be gassed, they began to cause a scene and create a ruckus. Their disturbance was such that Josef Mengele also known as the “Angel of Death” was called over to the two men and they were sent back, not to be gassed with the others.

Being saved that day led them to become part of Operation Bernhard. The idea was that the Nazis were looking for people who could forge, draw, or were artists. Peter could draw so he was chosen; Hans however was not chosen for his forging skills, instead he was an inspector of finished notes. Due to his forging abilities he could create, on inspection, piles of notes that were perfect, passable, and do-overs. The prisoners of Operation Bernhard were based in block 19 at Sachsenausen. As the war was coming to an end the prisoners were moved to other camps, a total of five different camps over two and half years. The counterfeit notes were only produced at Sachenhausen.

At the end of the war Hans was in Austria and able to walk out of the camp at liberation. Depending on the day the story is told, he may have been picked up by Russian or American troops. His liberation brought him to an American camp where he was nursed back to health. It is believed that as a member of Operation Bernhard he was treated better than other Jewish prisoners. Hans said those in charge would make nice, sneaking extra food or cigarettes in a hand shake or while talking.

Once free Hans’ desire was to go to Israel, however he could not pass the physical. So instead, he was told to marry a dark-haired dark-eyed girl, not a blond-haired blue-eyed girl as he desired. The girl he was set to marry was told she should not, as Hans would only live another five maybe ten years – Hans was 96 when he died. Since he couldn’t go to Israel, arrangements were made for him and his family to go to Mansfield, Ohio. Hans had his “ducks in a row” with a job lined up and a place to stay. Hans worked for Lufthansa, having tool and die skills as well as building skills which led to a long career at General Motors, retiring in 1980.

Debbie and her family often attended survivor events, and she and her brother had difficulty figuring out where they belonged. Was it with the second generation or third generation? Being adopted suggested the second generation, they had difficulty fitting in. While they were in middle school or high school, they began asking Hans to speak to their classes, which began Hans’ long tenure of speaking of his concentration camp Operation Bernhard experience. Debbie and her brother David had always known their father’s story of survival and that he could have died. He just didn’t talk about it with the community they lived in. The opportunity that talking to their school classes presented allowed Hans to share notes he had inspected, pictures from his time, as well as the belt he wore when he walked out on liberation day. What began in local schools blossomed to college classes and other events. Hans became active in the Cleveland survivor’s foundation as he was the only survivor in Mansfield. These engagements led to invitations to participate in a special by the BBC for PBS as well as invitations to MPCfest. As Hans aged, he got nervous about attending out of town events. Debbie would call the hotel and ask if it was okay to bring a dog – she would be told “if Hans needs a dog, he can bring a dog.” While Hans was welcomed with open arms by schools and other organizations, he was not necessarily welcomed in his own community where he was the only survivor. Never being asked to speak when his own small Temple would host local events, they would bring speakers from the Ghetto or others who had liberated and were not even Jewish.

Debbie believes it is the job of the second and third generations to tell these stories, not just to Jewish communities but to others. Debbie is not sure she would have been able to survive as her father did. However, she does believe that we need to hear what happened so that it does not happen again, to anyone. When asked what the hardest part of telling her story for Hans’ story is, she says it is starting the chapter trying to explain how it affected her. Hans’ sister would not talk of her experiences, saying “that’s not me, I’m not talking about it.” However, Hans’ younger brother chose to write a book about it.

Debbie made it very clear that Hans was a workaholic, believing that if you were sick you went to work, if it was a holiday or weekend, you were there to help, saying “do it if you are able to do it.” So, he was not always in Temple. Hans enjoyed talking about history and did not believe in fantasy. He could talk about many aspects of World War II, not just his experience in the concentration camp but the events of the Pacific campaign. While not diagnosed, Hans did suffer from PTSD and mental illness, experiencing mood swings.

In closing Debbie shared several pictures of her father Hans, beginning with a photo of him on his bicycle and several photos from just after liberation. A majority of the photos were from the speaking events he attended over the years. In one Hans is seen showing off his number tattoo like many concentration camp prisoners had, Hans’, however, was on his upper arm, not his forearm – he claimed this was because he was a “resistor.” Hans got great joy out of being the center of attention and loved to go and talk about his experiences where he was welcomed and wanted. There was joy in knowing that young students cared about his story, and were engaged in the presentation, asking good questions.

Speaker’s Wor[l]d
The Soho Mint: Matthew Boulton, James Watt, and the Age of Revolutions

by Laurence Edwards,
presented to our May 8, 2024 meeting

Matthew Boulton and James Watt are celebrated on a British £50 note from 2011 (which was withdrawn from circulation in 2022). James Watt left Glasgow – he had worked as a technician at the University of Glasgow – in May of 1774 and arrived in Birmingham on the last day of that month, almost exactly 250 years ago! The engineering genius of the Scottish Enlightenment shook hands with Matthew Boulton, one of the pioneers of English industrialization.

James Watt is the more famous name – well-known to anyone who has ever checked the brightness of a lightbulb. Not the inventor of the steam engine, but the one who improved it in ways that made it central to the Industrial Revolution – the effects of which we are still living with (and maybe dying from – though I confess I am reluctant to give up the many conveniences it has provided).

Matthew Boulton was not only a businessman and industrial innovator. He was part of a circle of intellectuals, the Lunar Society, that met monthly to discuss wide-ranging topics: Joseph Priestley, Josiah Wedgwood, Erasmus Darwin… He could have led the life of a gentleman of leisure, thanks to inheritances, but he had idealistic notions of business: “I am partial to trade in as much as it extends a man’s powers of doing good and I would rather be distinguished as the greatest Manufacturer in Europe than as a Count of the Holy Empire.”

Anyway, Watt’s steam engine and Boulton’s business ambition would eventually revolutionize the manufacture of money. I will share what has led me to an interest in the coins, medals, and tokens produced by the Soho Mint – and its connection to the Industrial Revolution, the American Revolution, and (less about) the French Revolution, as well as to the global reach of the British Empire.

I started like everyone else: Whitman folders. In 8th grade I was Assistant Editor of the newsletter for the recently reorganized North Shore Coin Club. In high school I was still puttering around, until other things took over.

My father was a collector (stamps), so I inherited the collecting gene from him. He also had a special interest in US history, which led him to encourage my interest in Colonials/Pre-Federal/Washington pieces, and US type coins. When I returned to numismatics as I neared retirement, I was happy to find my collection still intact.

Colonials and early US copper still hold a special interest. The Colonial list had expanded and continued to expand. Interested in what else was circulating in America, and what was happening in Britain, I purchased a British copper as a kind of “bridge” between America and Britain. Turned out to be a rather famous piece from the Soho Mint.

Another branch of my growing interest in the late 18th Century is that of British trade and political tokens. In America these are often called “Conder Tokens,” for the English merchant James Conder who created an early catalog of them – though in the UK, no one calls them that. A subject for another time, perhaps.

As I learned more about the Soho Mint, it became a sub-specialty. The output is quite vast – I have no intention of trying to collect them all, just a few representative examples. When Melissa invited me to give a talk, I chose Soho as my topic because I wanted to do more reading. Having an assignment is how I get myself to do that.

I am sure you all know the basics of coin production, and how long a way we have come from the earliest method: hammering. Then came the great advance of the coin press. And then we get to the Soho Mint in the English Midlands, one of the great innovations of the Industrial Revolution. The Mint was part of a complex of buildings, the Soho Manufactory, all of which are gone, though Matthew Boulton’s home can still be visited in Birmingham.

Two books have served as the main sources for this presentation: Richard Doty and Sue Tungate. Doty is more complete on history; Tungate is great if you want to know more about the technology.

So, when James Watt made his way down from Glasgow to Birmingham in 1774 it marked a major moment in the Industrial Revolution. And certainly in the industrialization of coin production. This was not only the age of Industrial Revolution; King George III had more to deal with than royal coinage. There was the Boston Tea Party (1773). A decade and a half later, the French would get into the Revolution act, which would then lead to Napoleon and the Napoleonic Wars. King George had plenty to worry about, though he was still on the throne when Wellington defeated Napoleon at Waterloo. We do not have time for all that.

Let us stay with the Industrial Revolution in Birmingham, home of the Soho Mint, at the end of the 18th Century. Birmingham is located in the English Midlands; Glasgow to the north, in Scotland; major copper mines in Wales. Remember that heavy equipment – steam engines, casks of coins – could not move easily over rutted roads. The building of canals was also crucial to the growth of Britain as the first industrializing nation.

It should be noted that Boulton & Watt did not deal only in coin production – that is just what is of greatest interest to us. The Soho Manufactory, founded by Matthew Boulton Sr., made “toys” – personal accessories such as snuffboxes – and as the next generation expanded the business it continued to make all kinds of products, from buttons to silver-plate bowls and candlesticks. When James Watt joined the firm, construction and sale of steam engines became a major aspect of the business.

It was a business, of course, but Matthew Boulton did not only want to make a fortune (I was going to say, “make money,” but that is what he did). His ambition was to produce coins, especially small denomination copper coins – which were in short supply and were much needed for trade – paying workers, buying everyday commodities – but were of less interest to royal rulers who liked silver and gold. He also knew that his industrial innovations would make it cheaper to produce such coins. And the consistent quality that could be achieved would make counterfeiting more difficult.

Once the Soho Mint had regularized its method of coining, it also sought to export operational mints to other countries, with varying degrees of success. The first big success – though it took many years due to bureaucracy, weather, and various other factors – was a mint for Russia. The project began in 1796. Boulton thought it would take 5 years at most, but the St. Petersburg Mint did not become operational until 1810. Geo-politics also played a role. In late 1807, as Doty writes: “Napoleon and Alexander I were sitting on a raft in neutral territory, dividing the world between them. The vacillating Tsar had swung against Great Britain – for the time being. He would swing decisively in the opposite direction in a few years’ time; but for now, all intercourse between England and Russia was cut off…”

Some things were just not in Matthew Boulton’s control, nor could they be solved by the application of steam power! Boulton’s biggest ambition was that the Royal Mint buy his equipment, or better – contract with the Soho Mint to make British coins. As you might imagine, there was resistance among the traditionalists at the Tower Mint (that is the Tower of London). Eventually, Boulton & Watt did get hired to build the equipment for a new mint on Little Tower Hill. There were various other efforts to export mints: Brazil, India, Mexico… Each one is a story (see Doty), but let us move on to some coins and tokens!

The medal produced in 1789 to celebrate George III’s recovery was part of Boulton’s larger campaign to ingratiate himself with the government in hopes of eventually winning a contract to work with (or maybe even take over from) the Royal Mint. George III reigned a long time and was often ill, so I am not sure exactly which recovery this was. Boulton had high hopes when he engaged the Swiss engraver Jean-Pierre Droz, but the relationship turned out to be mostly a headache. This is about the only work Boulton got from him before sending him back to the Continent.

The Eccleston halfpenny weighs 10.85 grams and is 29mm in diameter; the dies were engraved by Noël-Alexandre Ponthon. This is not the kind of work Boulton originally wanted to do. I mentioned earlier the so-called “Conder” tokens. This item is included in that series. They were produced privately, often to satisfy the need for small coins. They also became very popular, and were widely collected. And business is business, so Boulton produced a number of these tokens. Daniel Eccleston (1745-1821) is a very interesting character. A businessman who often did not pay his bills. A deist who once circulated a rumor about his own death, followed up by a message written from “the other side.” Those of you interested in Washington material will know the large and impressive “Eccleston Medal” which he commissioned (not from Soho) with a portrait of Washington on one side and an indigenous American on the other side. (Washington was fairly popular in certain circles of English society. I imagine this added to King George’s many symptoms.)

Conrad Heinrich Küchler was the engraver of a lovely token celebrating the improvement of navigation on the River Stort. (Remember that rivers and canals were absolutely essential to British trade at this time.) This 1795 piece was Matthew Boulton’s personal favorite. He would frequently carry around on his person examples of this token to show friends and business associates the high level of craft and artistry that the Soho Mint was capable of. This is the highlight of my collection, not only because it is beautiful work and was one of Boulton’s favorites… this particular piece has provenance. It was passed down through several generations of the Boulton Family!

Now the Cartwheels. Finally, finally, in 1797, Parliament requested copper coinage. Matthew Boulton was invited to London. Once again Boulton would call on Küchler to prepare the dies for one- and two-penny copper coins. The design is actually fairly plain: George III on the obverse and Britannia seated on the reverse (her first time holding a trident). But the weight and dimensions are impressive! The two pence coin contained two ounces of copper. They were known as “cartwheels” due to the broad rims on the obverse and reverse. The cartwheel is actually my first Soho acquisition, before I had even heard of Soho.

In 1804 Boulton had another opportunity to show off his equipment to the powers that be in the Royal Mint. As you know, Spanish silver dollars were the most widely circulating silver coins of the time. The Royal Mint had attempted to countermark them with little George III stamps. They were still widely counterfeited. (I am not sure how the British Government came into possession of so many of these 8-real “pieces of 8” that they wanted to just re-use them – hard not to imagine a few naval encounters between the Royal Navy and Spanish treasure ships.) Anyway, Soho proposed stamping a whole new coin over the original, resulting in the Bank Dollar (5 Shillings) of 1804.

And Soho did eventually produce regular copper coinage for the Royal Mint. From dies again engraved by Küchler, the design for the 1806 and 1807 coins used a new portrait of George III with cropped hair, and the date was moved to the obverse; Britannia on the reverse remained the same.

Serving the needs of commerce also meant serving the Empire. Coins for the East India Company are from some of Soho’s earliest large contracts. After Boulton and Watt died, their enterprise was kept going by their sons, Matthew Robinson Boulton and James Watt Jr. Neither Watt was directly involved in the coining contracts; Boulton & Watt was the name of the company. Matthew Robinson Boulton oversaw some of those contracts for exporting and setting up mints in distant lands. Pieces for Singapore merchants and the Bank of Montreal and some of the products of the second generation.

Finally, just to bring things back to my interest in early American copper coins… In May 1798, the first of many regular shipments of copper planchets arrived in Philadelphia from the Soho Mint. The young United States wanted to produce its own coins, but technology was limited. There was correspondence with Soho about coinage and equipment for the new country, but all it came to was the export of many casks of blank copper planchets. Doty reports that, “…of all cents struck between 1797 and 1837, more than two-thirds were made of Soho-supplied planchets. And all half-cents struck during the first third of the nineteenth century started out in Matthew Boulton’s workshop.”

Shipments of planchets were interrupted by the War of 1812, but resumed after. [The US Mint got its first steam engine in 1836 – not from Soho, as it turned out].

The third generation lost interest. Matthew Boulton’s grandson wound things down and sold off the equipment. In 1850 the equipment was purchased by Heaton & Sons, which eventually became the Birmingham Mint. It had a contract with the Royal Mint and also produced coins for other countries. It has its own history.


Richard Doty, The Soho Mint and the Industrialization of Money (Smithsonian, BNS, Spink, 1998).

Sue Tungate, Matthew Boulton and the Soho Mint: Copper to Customer (Brewin Books, 2020).

Jenny Uglow, The Lunar Men: The Friends Who Made the Future (Faber and Faber, 2002).

Current Advertisers

Chicago Coin Company
Harlan J. Berk, Ltd.
Kedzie Koins Inc.
Classical Numismatic Group

Show and Tell

Items shown at our May 8, 2024 meeting,
reported by Deven Kane.

  1. Noah Graf showed a bronze sestertius, circa 140-144, of Antoninus Pius, the Roman Emperor from 136 to 161; he was the fourth of the “Five Good Emperors.” It was purchased at the recent 2024 CSNS Convention. This perfectly-centered and very attractive imperial sestertius is beautifully patinated with dark brown, blue-green, and sandy desert tones all visible in an almost layered fashion, particularly on the obverse. The emperor’s bust is clear and distinctive, despite being somewhat worn, and the personified goddess of money on the reverse is boldly struck. Some very minor corrosion near the reverse edges in no way detracts from the fully legible text, which is entirely on the flan on both obverse and reverse. This is Noah&srsquo;s first sestertius, and an eagerly-awaited addition to his collection. Noah has a personal admiration for the Emperor Antoninus as a peaceful ruler, a skilled administrator, a promoter of Roman jurisprudence, and a sponsor of large public works across the Empire. Noah has long been drawn to Antoninus’ legacy, which has often and unfortunately been overshadowed by the reign and works of his adoptive son, Marcus Aurelius.
  2. Having an interest in Chicago history and some years working in meat packing, Melissa Gumm showed a token from Schwarzchild & Sulzberger. Working in an industry that you have an interest in is a blessing and curse. Opportunity presents itself to see many amazing things, thus leading to adding some of them to your own collection. Established by two German immigrants in New York City, Schwarzchild & Sulzberger expanded first to Kansas City and then to Chicago in 1900, with what was called the finest plant in the world. The token, about the size of a half dollar, commemorates the September 30, 1903 Stock Yards Day during the Chicago Centennial 1803-1903 celebrations. The centennial was celebrated on an installment plan, per a New York Times article on August 15,1903, with the first day marked day by hoisting a flag at the Chicago Historical society. Planned events for future days included erecting a mini Fort Dearborn and having it attacked and burned by Indians.
  3. After showing a map of northern medieval Italy showing the location of three city-states, Bob Leonard showed examples of the three principal gold trade coins of the Northern Italian city-states during the Middle Ages each weighing about 3.5 grams.
    1. A florin of Florence, from 1252-1291.
    2. A Genovino of Genoa, from the second reign of Simone Boccanegra (1356-1363).
    3. A ducat of Venice, from the 1356-1361 reign of Giovanni Dolfin.
    4. Also shown was the coin they replaced, the debased (11 carats!) hyperpyron of John V and John VI, 1347-1354 – the last Byzantine gold coin. In the 13th and 14th centuries, Byzantine gold coins became of such unreliable quality that the Italian trading cities abandoned them and minted their own coins, of pure gold, and all of approximately equal weight.
    As a bonus before passing them around, Bob mentioned one of these coins is plugged, and challenged us to identify it.
  4. Tyler Rossi showed the photocopied back of a 50 mark (series 2007, Pick 76) note of the Central Bank of Bosnia and Herzegovina. The colors are purple on lilac, with a multicolored underprint with alternating texts of the bank name and denomination. The central motif is a carved stone relief. The front is a wanted poster; the text translates to:
    The Rewards for Justice program is offering up to five million dollars for information leading to the arrest or conviction of persons indicted by The International Tribunal for War Crimes in The Hague for serious violations of international law, including Radovan Karadzic
    If you have such information, please contact Rewards for Justice via the phone numbers or email address listed below. All contacts will be treated as confidential…
  5. In memory of Bob Weinstein, who loved Indo-Greek and Indo-Scythian coins, Deven Kane showed five coins from the Klaus Grigo collection.
    1. A silver drachma of the Indo-Greek king Archebios Dikaios (the Just) Nikephoros (the Victorious) who ruled circa 90-80BC. This Baktrian coin, weighing 2.13 grams and 17mm in diameter, follows the Indian weight standard. Deven’s first purchase of a coin of Archebios in 2008 disappeared in New York Customs. The obverse has Greek legends around a bust of the king, while the reverse has Indian legends around Zeus holding lightning and a sceptre.
    2. A rectangular bronze coin from the Indo-Scythian kingdom, circa 85-70 BC, issued by Maues who founded the kingdom. The piece weighs 10.21 grams and is bilingual, with Greek legends on the side featuring a deity with a Phrygian cap, and with Indian legends on the side featuring an Aegis (a shield used by Zeus and his daughter Athena in Greek mythology).
    3. A rectangular bronze coin from the Indo-Scythian kingdom, circa 75-60 BC, bearing the names of two kings, Vonones and Spalahores. The piece weighs 8.11 grams and is bilingual, with Greek legends on the side featuring Heracles with club and lion skin, crowning himself, and with Indian legends on the side featuring Athena with shield, spear, sword, and cult object.
    4. A rectangular bronze coin from king Azes of the Indo-Scythian kingdom, circa 58-12 BC. The piece weighs 2.72 grams and is bilingual, with Greek legends on the side featuring the king with spear, astride a horse, and with Indian legends on the side featuring a humpback cattle with unlisted monograms above.
    5. A rectangular bronze mystery coin, believed from Taxila. It is unpublished, and has minimal markings; a head with hood, above a hill crowned by a crescent moon, is on one side, while the other side has a Zebu cattle with symbols above. Deven was challenged enough by the catalogue’s sparse and inconclusive description to place a very low bid – his was the only bid on this lot. Happy investigations!
  6. Mark Wieclaw exhibited with the theme of Turtles and Tortoises (Silver and Bronze).
    1. Examples of two types of struck silver staters of Aegina: Sea Turtle, circa 550-530 BC; and Land Tortoise, circa 380-360 BC. Both obverses are in very high relief, with the other side showing a geometric pattern with five lines radiating from the center. Aegina is a rocky and mountainous island, located 25 miles southeast of Athens, whose inhabitants leveraged the sea for their livelihood. During travels, they encountered the early electrum coinage of Lydia and became the first of the Greek city-states to issue coined money, in the mid-6th century BC. Athens conquered Aegina and forced the inhabitants from the island, returning after Athens lost the Peloponnesian War. Their coinage design changed from sea turtles to the land tortoise because of their loss of supremacy on the seas; the new coinage was minted in far smaller quantities, making them much rarer today.
    2. A bronze Aes Grave Sextans of the Roman Republic, circa 230 BC. One side has a high-relief turtle, while the other side has a wheel with six spokes. This is a cast coin, which allowed for a higher relief. The fractional denominations of an Aes Grave are:
      As = Basic Unit
      Semis = One Half of a Unit
      Triens = One Third of a Unit
      Quadrans = One Quarter of a Unit
      Sextans = One Sixth of a Unit
      Uncia = One Twelfth of a Unit
      Semuncia = One Twenty-fourth of a Unit
    3. Fast forward to earlier this month, when a neighbor gave Mark some home-baked treats: a chocolate covered 5-arm wheelspoke pretzel with half a pecan affixed to one side. Shown next to the the Aes Grave Sextans, their similarity is striking.


Chicago Numismatic Society
1913 Membership Medal

by Bill Burd

A gentleman from California contacted our Chatter Editor in January of this year, regarding a medal he owned for decades. He believed it was issued to J. Henry Ripstra, and was reaching out to see if there was any interest in it. Paul Hybert asked Bill Burd to respond to the gentleman and explain the actual purpose of the medal. He responded, explaining the medal was produced by Ripstra and it was an annual membership medal given to persons who joined that year. Thirteen people joined in 1913, therefore the 13 stars on the reverse.

Bill suggested he place it in our November auction and mentioned the sale of a 1907 medal in our 2023 auction which brought $70.00. Anxious to get this medal back to Chicago, Bill also offered to purchase it outright for $125.00. The offer was accepted and Bill now has it in his possession. In order to give everyone an opportunity to add it to their collection, it will be placed in our November Auction. Starting bid will be $125.00. Any proceeds over that will be given to the Club. A box is included. It was falling apart and was glued back together.

Minutes of the 2024 WFoM Host Club Committee Meeting

May 1, 2024 – 7:00pm CDT.

Attending: Dale Lukanich (Chair), Dale Carlson, Scott McGowan, Greg Gajda, Rich Lipman, Mark Wieclaw, John Riley, John Kent, and Deven Kane.

Dale Lukanich called the meeting to order at 7:04pm, reminding that World’s Fair of Money® details are on the ANA website, at Current details include show hours, meetings information, convention floor layout, lodging details, application forms, and more.

Subcommittee Reports

Exhibits: Dale Calrson and Ray Dagenais, co-chairs, will need at least two ambassadors per day for helping with passing out ballots for People’s Choice and crowd direction. Deadline to submit exhibit applications is June 14, 2024. Exhibit set up schedule, per ANA website, is Monday, noon-6pm; Tuesday, 7am-1pm.

Pages: John Kent reported the ANA has received several page applications so far. Elgin Coin Club has a few kids interested in becoming pages, and 5-6 local kids near John are interested. Page chairs will need to ensure younger pages are paired up. We need to make sure all pages have notebooks and pens for writing down orders and to keep track of tasks. Page application is on the WFoM section of the ANA website, and deadline is July 22, 2024. Pages age limit is 22 years of age.

Young Numismatists: Jim Ray reported by email that at the National Money Show the Treehouse and youth area was staffed by all ANA staff. He indicated volunteers could help in August. Scott indicated two ambassadors are usually assigned to the kid’s zone for each WFoM.

Ambassadors: Scott McGowan reported 25 ambassadors have signed up to date. The 2022 convention had 46.

Money Talks: Speakers have been selected and are being notified by the ANA. Money Talks will be two days, Thursday and Friday. The application deadline was April 12, 2024.

Dale Lukanich indicated Gene Freeman is sending Scouting at the ANA badges to him for the convention.

Dale will be checking with Jennifer at the ANA about the Form to pre-register for: the convention, the Friday night banquet, and other events. Committee members can register for a special price ticket for the Friday banquet.

Scott mentioned the Sundman luncheon on Wednesday and is well worth the price. It requires advance registration.

The meeting was adjourned at 7:35pm.

Next meeting will be Wednesday, June 5, 2024 at 7:00pm CDT. Watch for invite email from the CCC Secretary.

Respectfully Submitted,
Scott A. McGowan, Secretary, Chicago Coin Club

Minutes of the Chicago Coin Club Board

May 15, 2024

CCC President John Riley called the in-person meeting to order at 6:15pm CDT at Connie’s Pizza. In attendance were John Riley, Melissa Gumm, Deven Kane, Paul Hybert, Scott McGowan, Mark Wieclaw, Rich Lipman, Carl Wolf, Steve Zitowsky, and Ray Dagenais. Absent were Elliott Kreiter, Bill Burd, and Jeff Rosinia

Old Business

John Riley began with a question about the Coins for As program. Scott McGowan indicated that we did launch the program in 2023 with instructions and a form for submissions, plus an article in the Chatter. As yet no submissions. Discussion about whether to expand to all YNs for more than just school grades, i.e. doing an exhibit, speaking at a meeting or show. Rich Lipman recommended publicizing this to the Latin School of Chicago, who hosted a coin class earlier this year. Scott also mentioned that the ANA was giving YNs a packet with a Redbook, a Loupe, and ANA pen at the CSNS convention, and that maybe we use club funds to build a new pack like this for YNs to promote and assist their interests in Numismatics.

Club secretary Scott McGowan read an emailed update on the 2024 World’s Fair of Money® from host-club committee chair Dale Lukanich, indicating ANA Planning is going well. Thanks to Steve Z, we have a tentative schedule for the ANA. We do know things can change. The next committee meeting is on June 5 at 7pm. The CCC/NYNC Dinner is set for August 8th at Gibson’s in Rosemont. Cost is $75.00. We have room for 90 people. The next two ANA summer conventions will be:
  • 2025 ANA WFoM - Oklahoma City, OK
  • 2026 ANA WFoM - Pittsburgh, PA

Scott also gave an update on the Legacy Committee, also emailed from Dale, reporting that “Carl Wolf is scheduled to be interviewed on May 22nd. Next should be Bob Leonard on the 29th, and we will schedule Cliff Mishler and James McMenamin for the following two weeks. We will then take a break until after the ANA to give the Newman Numismatic Library staff time to edit and post.”

Mark Wieclaw reported on Future Projects Committee, indicating he needed access to the club’s WebEx account so the committee can have periodic meetings. Scott will connect with Mark to give instructions. Team of Mark, Jeff Rosinia, Rich Lipman, Carl Wolf, and Elliott Kreiter will then meet to move forward.

Deven Kane reported on the Hall of Fame Committee, indicating they have one submission of a club deceased member that is being researched and reviewed.

Scott McGowan reported on the proposed WebEx symposium with New York, indicating that Bob Leonard has agreed to be the CCC speaker if after October 1, 2024. Bob also asked, “Is there a theme for the Symposium? if we are having just two presentations, then the theme may become moot. Still, I would like to have some coordination, so that the presentations complement each other. See if you can ask the NYNC to settle on an area (at least): an aspect of ancient coins, Byzantium, inflation and debasement, trade coins, die studies/survival rates/rarity, etc.”

Scott McGowan reported on Chatter advertising from CNG, and that Travis at CNG plans to have an ad to the Chatter editor by May 23, 2024.

Paul Hybert commented on the New CCC website section that details past presentations, both Featured Speakers and Show & Tell presentations. The list at currently goes back to 2013, but plans are to expand it back to 2000 as time permits.

New Business

2024 November Auction committee has yet to meet. We are at 25-35 lots so far. Our Max is 60 lots, and we will accept club donations first before any consignments.

December 2024 Banquet – no official banquet committee has been established yet. John Riley made a case for returning to the same restaurant, Capri Ristorante Italiano in Palos Heights. There was concern about the length of the drive for some members. The cost at Capri is one of the best values for the banquet. Discussion was to discuss banquet options with the club membership at the June club meeting.

Scott McGowan brought up possibility of buying a new wireless microphone, based on comments from members at the CSNS convention club meeting. The board thought it was generally a good idea. No definitive plan was made but the cost of such a purchase would be within the board’s latitude.

Scott McGowan also floated the Idea of a media board member, a possible new position to handle all the Information Technology, citing that a backup would be a good idea. There is also the need to inventory, photograph, and label all the Media equipment and cables, to make it easier for setup.

Melissa Gumm presented a proposal to the board to change the December banquet program from a featured speaker to a “year in review” presentation. The board indicated that was a very good idea.

Scott McGowan reported on the CCC listing on the ANA website – it has yet to be updated with the current main contact information. Scott has reached out to the ANA webmaster to get the changes implemented.

John Riley adjourned the meeting at 7:50 pm CDT.

2024 Future Board Meetings: August 21, and November 20, 2024.

Respectfully Submitted,
Scott A. McGowan, Secretary

Our 1265th Meeting

Date: June 12, 2024 (in-person and online)
Time: 6:45PM CDT (UTC-05:00)
Location: Downtown Chicago
At the Chicago Bar Association, 321 S. Plymouth Court, 3rd or 4th floor meeting room. Please remember the security measures at our meeting building: everyone must be prepared to show their photo-ID and register at the guard’s desk.
Online: For all the details on participating online in one of our club meetings, visit our Online Meeting webpage at Participation in an online meeting requires some advance work by both our meeting coordinator and attendees, especially first-time participants. Please plan ahead; read the latest instructions on the day before the meeting! Although we try to offer a better experience, please be prepared for possible diifficulties.
Featured Program: Mark WieclawAn Overview of Ancient Mint Error Coins
This presentation will look at and discuss a variety of minting errors. They will include brockages (obverse and reverse), drastic off-center strikes, double strikes, flip-over double strikes, blank (obverse and reverse), and mule (mismatched obverse and reverse dies). Several examples will make the viewer wonder how such an error would have been placed into circulation. All three major time periods (Greek, Roman, and Byzantine) will be represented.

Important Dates

Unless stated otherwise, our regular monthly CCC Meeting is in downtown Chicago, and also online, on the second Wednesday of the month; the starting time is 6:45PM CT.

June 12 CCC Meeting - Featured Speaker - Mark Wieclaw on An Overview of Ancient Mint Error Coins
July 10 CCC Meeting - Featured Speaker - Tyler Rossi on to be determined
August 6-10 ANA in Rosemont, at Donald E. Stephens Convention Center. Admission is free for ANA members — for details, see
August 10 CCC Meeting - Noon at the ANA Convention, which is held at the Donald E. Stephens Convention Center, 5555 North River Road, Rosemont, IL. No admission charge for our meeting.
Featured Speaker - Nathan Elkins on Coins and the Colosseum: How Coinage Illuminates the Greatest Amphitheater
August 14 CCC Meeting - Featured Speaker - to be determined
September 5-7 ILNA 2023 Annual Coin & Currency Show at the Tinley Park Convention Center, 18451 Convention Center Drive, Tinley Park, Illinois 60477. Details, including hours and events, are available at
September 11 CCC Meeting - Featured Speaker - to be determined

Chatter Matter

Contacting Your Editor / Chatter Delivery Option

The print version of the Chatter is simply a printout of the Chatter webpage, with a little cutting and pasting to fill out each print page. The webpage is available before the Chatter is mailed.
If you would like to receive an email link to the latest issue instead of a mailed print copy, send an email to You can resume receiving a mailed print copy at any time, just by sending another email.

Club Officers

Elected positions:
John Riley- President
Melissa Gumm- First V.P.
Deven Kane- Second V.P.
William Burd- Archivist
Directors:Ray Dagenais
Mark Wieclaw
Carl Wolf
Steve Zitowsky
Appointed positions:
Richard Lipman- Immediate Past President
Scott McGowan- Secretary
Elliott Krieter- Treasurer
Paul Hybert- Chatter Editor, webmaster
Jeffrey Rosinia- ANA Club Representative


All correspondence pertaining to Club matters should be addressed to the Secretary and mailed to:
P.O. Box 2301

Or email the Secretary at
Payments to the Club, including membership dues, can be addressed to the Treasurer at the above street address.


Renewing Members Annual dues are $20 a year ($10 for Junior, under 18). Annual Membership expires December 31 of the year through which paid. Cash, check, or money order are acceptable (USD only please). We do not accept PayPal. Email your questions to Members can pay the Club electronically with Zelle™ using their Android or Apple smart phone. JP Morgan Chase customers can send payments to the Club via Quick Pay. To see if your Bank or Credit Union is part of the Zelle™ Payments Network, go to Please read all rules and requirements carefully.

Sharing this complete Chatter issue with a friend is simple. Just let them scan this code into their smartphone!