• Contents of this Issue
  • CCC Meeting Minutes
  • Different Grading Standards of Early American Copper Coinage
  • Exhibits
  • Joint Social Gathering
  • Annual Member Auction
  • Banquet Preview
  • Upcoming Meeting
  • Important Dates
  • Chatter Matter
  • Share This Issue!
• Other Chatter Issues
  • Prior Issue
  • Next Issue
  • All Past Issues
• Contact Editor

Chatter

Minutes of the 1162nd Meeting

The 1162nd meeting of the Chicago Coin Club was held October 14, 2015 in the Chicago Bar Association Building, 321 S. Plymouth Court, Downtown Chicago. President Elliott Krieter called the meeting to order at 6:45 PM with an attendance of 29 members and 1 guest, Mable Wright.

A motion was passed to accept the September Minutes as published in the Chatter. In the absence of Treasurer Steve Zitowsky, the Secretary delivered a detailed report of September revenue $1534.00, expenses $2690.46, net income -$1156.46, total assets $26,894.43 held in Life Membership $2,490.00 and member equity $24,404.42. A motion was passed to accept the report.

The December 9 Annual Banquet will be held at Marcello’s Restaurant, 645 W. North Avenue, Chicago. The program will be given by Mark Wieclaw and Jeff Amelse on Porcelain Coins and Medals of Germany. Mark announced that everyone in attendance will receive a porcelain piece compliments of Harlan J. Berk Ltd.

John Wright, who could not attend the recent American Numismatic Association Convention, was presented with their Lifetime Achievement Award. The speech given at the ANA Banquet was read, and John expressed his gratitude to all the friendships made over many years in the hobby.

An announcement was made that the ANA is offering the Club complimentary 12 Gold one-year memberships in the ANA. This includes the electronic edition of The Numismatist. A poll revealed there was only one CCC member in attendance who was not already an ANA member. The forms are consecutively numbered and require the applicant’s signature. See or write the Secretary at carlwolfco@msn.com.

With regret, the Secretary read the names of members with unpaid 2015 dues, and a motion was passed to drop them from the membership rolls. They were: Branislav Bajic, Robert Graves, Gary Gunderson, Richard Hall, Melissa Morsi, Daniel Pelc, Walter Perschke, David Sunshine, and Russell Wajda.

Bill Burd was presented with the following material to place in the Club Archives:

• Serial #001 CCC/NYNC Joint Medal (2015) in copper.
• Serial #001 CCC/ANA Convention Meeting Souvenir Sheet featuring the Handel Columbian Exposition Admission Ticket.
• The 2015 Louis S. Werner Host Club Award Plaque accepted by Club President Elliott Krieter at the ribbon cutting ceremony the first day of the ANA Convention.
• Walter Ostromecki’s “Points of Numismatic Light Program” certificate presented to the Club at the CSNS Convention in April.
• Newspaper reprints publicizing artist and sculptor Trygve Rovelstad, the designer of the Club’s 50th Anniversary Medal and the Elgin Commemorative Half Dollar.

An announcement was made that Dai Zoujon (#1166), who joined in May 2009, recently completed his Post-Doctorate Degree in Mechanical Engineering from University of Illinois Chicago and would be returning to Shanghai. Everyone wished him well and gave him a warm round of applause. Zoujon promised to return in 2019 for the Club’s 100th Anniversary and ANA Convention.

Brett Irick announced an Educational and Numismatic Tour of Eastern Europe and Russia scheduled May 10-26, 2016 and organized by the Polish American Numismatic Society.

Members were reminded the November 11 program will be the Club’s Annual Auction, and they should get their material to William Burd. The Club will also hold a meeting at the upcoming PCDA National Currency & Coin Convention, Nov 19-21. The Club meeting will be 1 PM, Saturday Nov 21, and the speaker will be Ray Lockwood on “History and Development of Polymer Banknotes.”

Members were encouraged to make reservations to attend the November 22 Numismatic Educational Symposium, co-sponsored by the Chicago Coin Club / Central States Numismatic Society, that includes four nationally recognized speakers. Several members, including Mark Wieclaw, Dale Lukanich, and Bob Feiler, spoke in support of the event.

A letter of apology was read from Leo Courshon, the evening’s featured speaker who was ill and unable to attend. John Wright and David Gumm were introduced and spoke in-depth on the planned subject “Different Grading Standards of Early American Copper Coinage.” After a question-and-answer period, they were presented with ANA Educational Certificates.

Second VP Steve Ambos announced the evening’s exhibitors. Dale Lukanich: 1947 coupons from Gvat Kibbutz, and medal from Glendale (CA) Coin Club. Richard Lipman: 5 pieces of early American currency. Adam Olszewski: medal and program from the recent XV International Numismatic Congress in Taormina, Sicily. Phil Carrigan: Oct 30, 1937 Stack’s Auction Catalog; Mark Wieclaw: 2 ancient Greek coins, and a cut-out and pop-out 1892 Columbian Expo Half dollar. Brett Irick: 8 pieces of Canadian numismatic material. Deven Kane: 3 Indo-Sasanian coins. Richard Hamilton: “waffled” coins from the US Mint, and Bicentennial proof set each coin signed by its designer.

The meeting was adjourned at 8:50 PM.

Respectfully Submitted,
Carl Wolf, Secretary

Speaker’s Wor[l]d
Different Grading Standards of Early American Copper Coinage

a presentation by John Wright and David Gumm,
to our October 14, 2015 meeting

Who better to tell us about the grading of early American copper coins than two members of the Early American Coppers (EAC) club? Having member numbers 7 and somewhere in the 3900s, our two speakers brought much experience to share with us. The grading of coins can be a hotly talked-about topic at any coin club, and especially in a specialized group of collectors. But remember — a grade is someone’s opinion — nothing more, and nothing less.

Up through the middle of the 20th century, adjectival grades sufficed: start at the low end with Fair, work up through Good and Fine, and through some more until reaching New. William Sheldon, in his 1949 Early American Cents, introduced a numeric grading scale from 1 at the low end up to 60 at the high end. This was based upon the observed relationship between prices and grades of a given Large Cent variety from 1793-1814. A coin in the poorest condition imagineable, but still with enough detail to make it identifiable, was declared to be in Basal State and was given a grade a 1. At the time, a coin in New condition sold for 60 times the price of a coin in Basal State, so a coin in New State was given a grade of 60. Since a new coin sold for 15 times the price of a good coin, the Good State meant a grade of 4; with the Fine State being assigned a grade of 12, a new coin must have sold for 5 times the price of a fine coin.

In his 1958 followup book Penny Whimsy, William Sheldon extended the grading scale by adding two grades for New at the high end: since a very nice New coin could have a 10% premium, and a truly exceptional New coin could have a 20% premium, grades of 65 and 70 were added. The scale was an accurate snapshot of a 22-year copper coin series from about 150 years after it was made. Although the underlying price relationships are long gone, the 1-70 grading scale remains from the era before people ventured into space atop rockets.

No coin has an absolute grade. The grade on a slab is an opinion — it is a pass-through to price. No two graders will agree, but experienced graders can be close. To illustrate the fluidity of grading, a handout on the discovery specimen of the 1793 “strawberry leaf” cent was reviewed. The coin was graded Fair in its first appearance, in 1877 when it sold for $77.50. In an 1890 sale it brought $79 as Fine. A dealer bought it in 1941 for $2,500, and resold it for $2,750 and called it Very Fine. Although it was locked away from public view from 1941 to 2004, old photos were used in a number of books, where it received a number of grades. In 2004, NGC slabbed it as Fine.

A number of committees have produced a grading guide over the years, and the product of a committee is seldom a thing of beauty. However, a recent EAC committee of four members produced an excellent guide — it has plenty of color pictures, and it discusses problems (there are more problems with copper coins because copper is softer and more reactive than other coinage metals). Now, we can encounter three takes on the 1-70 grading scale: EAC grading, market grading, and slab grading. (Briefly, slab grading is according to condition, but they decline to slab a hurt coin or they give it only a details grade; market grading is higher than slab grading.) Within each grading scheme, people with more than 20 years of experience generally agree; just make sure that everyone in a discussion is using the same scheme.

The EAC grading guide determines a grade by starting with sharpness, and then taking off points based upon problems; this is the idea of net grading. As a coin circulates, it accumulates a range of wear marks; the mentioned ones were scratches and porosity. Each collector has different feelings about how much a coin’s grade should be lowered for a given level of each type of marks. The committee tried to quantify how much to knock off for certain things, but John’s grading style might ding fewer points than the committee suggested. But remember, a low grade coin will have some scratches, surface issues, and other imperfections — it’s worn!

One way of viewing an imperfect coin’s net grade is as follows: compare the imperfect coin to an imaginary worn-but-perfect coin that has a lower grade but that is “as desirable” to you.

John recounted how a dealer once described a coin as UNC, but John told him it was XF. Neither side would budge from what they graded it, but they did agree on one point: the dealer wanted $200 for it, and John bought it for $200. A dealer who prices her coins without grading them would work well with an experienced collector who is confident about what he likes. But the rest of us must deal with grades while we earn those 20+ years of experience.

The program concluded with comments on toning. Many coins have been harshly cleaned with chemicals — on a copper coin, the result had a bright, unnatural pink color. Fifty to seventy years of toning might get rid of the pink color; John is not bothered by a little off-color, but the grading companies follow a yes/no practice whereby they will refuse to grade a coin that shows an old cleaning or, in their opinion, they think shows an old cleaning. Some of the best buys in collector coins can be found in slabbed coins with only a details grade — but this is only for collectors with experience and confidence in what they like.

Current Advertisers

Show and Tell

Items shown at our October 14, 2015 meeting,

1. Dale Lukanich showed some recent acquisitions:
   1. A large brassy 2015 medal from the Glendale Coin Club (California).
   2. A set of paper coupons (chits? tokens?) dated 1947, from Kibbutz Gvat. We saw pieces marked with 1, 2, 5, 10, 50, 100, 200, and 500, but we could not determine the units, denomination, or purpose. The kibbutz was founded in 1926.
2. Complementing the featured program, Rich Lipman showed early American paper money.
   1. An 18 pence note from New Jersey, dated March 25, 1776. This note has a leaf print on the back as an anticounterfeiting measure, and it has three signatures, all from local people, on the front. Rich mentioned that notes of this era might have from one to three signatures, and that some collectors look for notes signed by people who also signed the Declaration of Independence.
   2. A New York ten Spanish milled dollar note dated September 2, 1775; the back mentions the note was printed by John Hall.
   3. A South Carolina two shilling six pence note dated April 10, 1778. In general, the notes from South Carolina are quite artistic — this one pictures two cornocopia. (The denomination is also known as half of a crown.)
   4. A New York City Water Works two shilling note dated January 6, 1776; third series.
   5. A sample of Continental Currency printed on blue paper, issued as a counterfeit detector. Printed by Hall & Sellers, it is not signed and has no serial number.
3. Adam Olszewski attended the XV International Numismatic Congress in Taormina, Sicily; he told us about it, and showed us some items.
   1. The Survey of Numismatic Research 2008-2013.
   2. A large bronze medal issued for the congress.
   3. The congress schedule, listing events and all 400 speakers / programs.
   4. On the last day, Adam visited a live archaological dig of a Greek settlement.
   5. The congress is held every six years, with the next two scheduled for Warsaw in 2021, and Australia in 2027.
4. Phil Carrigan showed an interesting Stack’s catalog, for their Auction Sale on Saturday, October 30, 1937. Stack’s has issued hundreds of catalogs since the 1930s — Phil has been fortunate to acquire most of them, and this was his latest. John Adams rates it as B-, telling us the material in the auction was rather ordinary; but this slim catalog is rare. This was not one of the important auctions with a large print run — it was an ordinary auction with no compelling reason to save the catalog. Hence the challenge.
5. Mark Wieclaw showed a range of silver coins:
   1. A tetrobol from Lycia, circa 375-360 BC, with a bust of King Pericle well centered on the obverse. The reverse has a triskelis, but much of one arm is off of the flan. That is a common problem for collectors of ancient coins — find a coin with one side well centered, and the other side likely is very off-center. The challenge of collecting!
   2. A stater ftom Lycia, circa 480-430 BC, with Pegasus well centered on the obverse. The triskelis on the reverse is poorly centered.
   3. An 1892 Columbian Expo half dollar, to be used as reference when examining the next item.
   4. 1892 Columbian Expo half dollar, both cut out and popped out
6. Brett Irick showed mainly Canadian items:
   1. A 2015 Canadian $20 polymer note issued September 9, 2015 commemorating the “longest reign” of Queen Elizabeth II.
   2. Two Canada Specimen 1943 V 5¢ coins pedigreed to John Campbell, along with their original die-cut cardboard holder and envelope, as issued. Who was John Campbell? The first Mint Mast of the Royal Canadian Mint.
   3. A silver medal, in original case, from the Sydney, Australia Royal Mint in 1926, one of 200 made. This one was awarded to John Campbell upon his appointment as Deputy Master of the Ottawa Branch of the Royal Mint. John Campbell started in the Sydney branch of the British Royal Mint in 1895 as a bookkeeper. By 1920 he was Duputy Master, reporting to the Mint Master in London.
   4. A bronze 60th Anniversary of Canada Confederation medal, in original case and ex John Campbell. When appointed Deputy Master for the Ottawa Branch in 1926, he became the only person to be Deputy Master for two mints. In 1931 he became the first Mint Master of the Royal Canadian Mint when it was made independent of the Royal Mint in London. Mr. Campbell was a major force behind the 1935 Voyageur dollar and the 1937 “modern” Canadian coin designs.
   5. An 1876 New Caledonia silver exhibit award medal in case of issue, ex family of John Campbell’s wife.
7. Deven Kane previously showed us Sasanid coin types that were imitated by the Arabs after the conquest of Persia. Now he showed us imitations made by the successor states that formed in the Eastern reaches of the Sasanid Empire (in India). The Sasanids conquered Bactria from the Kushans in the 3rd century, resulting in the Kushanshah dynasty. The Hepthalite invasions in the early fifth century broke the power of the Kushanshahs, and the Hepthalites (known as Hunas in Indian sources) appear to have conquered Sind to reach the sea.
   1. A gold dinar (18mm, 7.02g) of Sasanian king Vahram (Bahram) V (AD 420-438), from the Sind mint. This issue by the Hunas in Sind continued Sind’s earlier combination of Sasanid design elements on the thicker flans more common in India and the Gupta Empire. Since each Sasanid emperor appeared wearing a unique crown on his coins, this reused design caused this coin to be identified as of Vahram V. The reverse shows a fire altar flanked by two attendants.
   2. A pale gold dinar (17mm, 6.89g) of Indo-Sasanian Sind in the 5th-6th century AD. The bust faces right, to a sun wheel, and the fire altar on the reverse indicates continuing Sasanian style. Although this coin identifies a ruler (Datasatya), something which does not always happen on Indian coinage, this ruler does not appear on any known regnal lists. This coin likely is from after the Hunas power was broken and Sind became independent. The coin became debased over time, and then it was gone.
   3. A later silver coin at the weight of a Sasanian drachm, with the abstract and crude designs of the coins that replaced the gold coins. The bust of the king and the fire altar are very stylized on this coinage; known in India as the Gadhaiya Paisa, it became the trade coinage of Western India from the 8th to the 11th century.
8. Richard Hamilton showed U.S. coins:
   1. A group of three slabbed Bicentennial coins with each slab signed by the creator of the reverse design.
   2. A group of five &ldquo:waffled” coins, in slabs. To destroy imperfect coins, the mint passes them through obliterating rollers that impart a waffle design to the coins. Two of them were half dollar size, and three of them were quarter size — sufficient details remain on two of them to identify them as 2003 Maine Statehood quarters.

2015 Social Gathering of the Chicago Coin Club and New York Numismatic Club

reported by Mark Wieclaw

On Wednesday, August 12th the two collectors groups gathered at Fogo de Chao in Rosemont, IL for cocktails, dinner, and an exciting numismatic presentation.

While no one can say for sure what the draw was, an overflow crowd of eighty-two numismatists and guests (capacity 75) filled the private dining area of Fogo de Chao, a Brazilian steakhouse. Amazingly, there were more than a half dozen coin enthusiasts who had to be turned away prior to the Tuesday deadline.

After a trip to the salad bar, diners were offered a dozen or so types of beef, pork, and chicken to sample while seated at their tables. Following dinner, for those who hadn’t over indulged, a wide variety of decadent desserts awaited the group.

This being a social event, business was kept to a minimum with each club president taking just a few minutes to speak about their respective organizations. Walter Ostromecki, outgoing president of the ANA, was then given the floor to make a few remarks and recognize some individuals who had done outstanding work in the hobby in the past year.

The highlight of the evening was a program on the “Space Penny” presented by Chicago Coin Club member Mike Gasvoda. Technically the coin is a cent and a very special one at that.

A 1793 Flowing Hair cent found its way onto the Gemini VII space capsule that orbited the earth 206 times in December of 1965. Mike told the story of how Dr. Howard A. Minners, NASA flight surgeon, placed the coin in the inflight Medical kit for safe storage. Using stock NASA photos and several privately taken pictures, the flight was followed from lift off to splash down.

Following a round of applause for Gasvoda’s presentation, the event concluded with everyone in attendance receiving one of the hundred copper medals struck specifically for the joint gathering. One side of the medal featured the Chicago Coin Club’s logo, while the New York Numismatic Club’s portion of the medal featured a design prepared by one of their more famous members, Victor D. Brenner.

The two clubs first gathered for dinner in 2013, and many members of the New York group graciously presented a birthday cake to the CCC in celebration of the club’s 95th Anniversary in 2014.

Annual Member Auction

Here are the lots known to us by October 27, 2015. The auction will be held near the start of the meeting, after a short time for lot examination.

Donation from Zoujun Dai

1. US Coin Digest — The Complete Guide to Current Market Values, by Krause Publications, 2007 along with The Official ANA Grading Standards for US Coins, 2013, 7th Edition, hard cover spiral edition.
2. The Official ANA Grading Standards for US Coins, 2013, 7th Edition, hard cover spiral edition.
3. Unusual World Coins, by Colin R. Bruce II, 4th Edition, 2005, 515 pages of non-circulating coins, fantasy issues, pseudo coins, etc. that do not qualify for the standard catalog of world coins.

Donation from Bill Rumph

4. National Football League Medal, Golden Anniversary 1920-1969, bronze, 70 mm, struck by the Medallic Art Co., NY.

Consignment from Brett Irick

5. National Bank Notes, by Don C. Kelly, 2008, sixth (and final) edition. With Bank Note Census CD, Brand new — never used.

Consignment from Carl Wolf

6. Money of the American Colonies and Confederation, by Philip L. Mossman, 1993, ANS Numismatic Studies No. 20.
7. Large Size Silver Coins of the World 16th – 19th Centuries, by John S. Davenport, 3rd edition, 1991, edited and revised by Ed Milas and Carl Subak.
8. World Countermarks on Medieval and Modern Coins, by Gregory G. Brunk, this is the 1976 edition by Quarterman Publications. The original was compiled from articles published in the Numismatist and the American Journal of Numismatics from 1901 to 1975; also A Trial List of the Countermarked Modern Coins of the World, by F. G. Duffield, a reprint from The Numismatist in 1962.
9. American and Canadian Countermarked Coins, by Gregory G. Brunk, 1st edition, 1987
10. Merchant and Privately Countermarked Coins, by Gregory G. Brunk, 2nd Edition, 2003, autographed.
11. The Nineteenth Century Token Coinage of Great Britain, Ireland, The Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, by W. J. Davis, originally published in 1904, this copy is a 1979 reprint by Seaby and Durst.
12. Tokens and Medals — A Guide to the Identification and Values of United States Exonumia, by Stephen Alpert and Lawrence Elman, 1st edition, 1992.
13. Paper Money of the United States, by Robert Friedberg, 3rd edition, 1959.
14. Criswell’s Currency Series — Vol. 1 Confederate and Southern State Currency, by Grover C. Criswell Jr., 1957 and Vol. 2 Confederate and Southern State Bonds, by Grover C. Criswell, Jr., 1961, with price list and supplement tipped in along with 3 price lists and supplements to volume 1.
15. Five books on Notgeld: Das deutsche Notgeld 1916-1919, by Dr. Arnold Keller, 1919 along with expanded edition dated 1920; Illustrierter Notgeld — Katalog, by Victor Engelmann, 1923; A Guide and Checklist of World Notgeld 1914-1947, by Courtney Coffing, 1988; Catalog of German War Tokens, by Robert Lamb, 1966.

Note: The following 6 books are being auctioned individually. All were published as part of the annual Coinage of the Americas Conference at the American Numismatic Society in New York.

16. Money of Pre-Federal America, edited by John M. Kleeberg, May 4, 1991, Proceedings No. 7.
17. Canada’s Money, edited by John M. Kleeberg, November 7, 1992, Proceedings No. 8.
18. America’s Silver Dollars, edited by John M. Kleeberg, October 30, 1993, Proceedings No. 9.
19. Coinage of the American Confederation Period, edited by Philip L. Mossman, October 28, 1995, Proceedings No. 11.
20. America’s Large Cent, edited by John M. Kleeberg, November 9, 1996, Proceedings No. 12.
21. The Medal in America, Volume 2, edited by Alan M. Stahl, November 8-9, 1997, Proceedings No. 13.
22. Medals and Decorations, by Ian Angus, 1973
23. Unusual World Coins, by Colin R. Bruce II, first edition, 1987
24. 3 Books: North American Coins & Prices, by Krause Publications, 1992; World Crowns & Talers 1484-1968, 1984; Coins of the World 1901-1950, by Wayte Raymond, 4th edition, 1951.
25. 3 Books: The Other Side of the Coin, by Edward C. Rochette, 1985, autographed; Making Money — Rogues & Rascals Who Made Their Own, by Rochette, 1986; Superstition, Urban Legends and Our Money, by Richard Giedroyc, 2004.

Consignment from Bob Feiler

26. 500th Meeting Medal, (1960) in bronze, 110 grams, mintage of 246, accompanied by a brass “version #2 pattern” ornament celebrating the 1000th meeting in 2002. Note the plane on the pattern — it was removed from the final version.
27. 50th Anniversary Medal, (1969) in bronze, designed by Trygve A. Rovelstad of Elgin.

Consignment from Roy Westrich

28. 500th Meeting Medal, (1960) in silver, 99.3 grams, mintage of 114, accompanied by souvenir pamphlet from the 500th meeting on Sept. 14, 1960.

Consignment from Bill Rumph

29. Columbian Exposition Medal, French medal dated 1893 celebrating the visit of the Civil Engineers of France to the Chicago exposition.
30. Thomas Edison Medal, Edison Caravan Convention Chicago June 20-21, 1921, high relief, silvered, 70 mm. This was a convention of Edison Phonograph dealers from the Midwest.

Preview of Our December Banquet (1164th Meeting)

Our 1163rd Meeting

Important Dates

Unless stated otherwise, our regular monthly CCC Meeting is in downtown Chicago on the second Wednesday of the month; the starting time is 6:45PM.

Chatter Matter

http://www.ChicagoCoinClub.org/

All correspondence pertaining to Club matters should be addressed to the Secretary and mailed to:
CHICAGO COIN CLUB
P.O. Box 2301
CHICAGO, IL 60690

Club Officers

Contacting Your Editor / Chatter Delivery Option

chatter_editor@yahoo.com

The print version of the Chatter is simply a printout of the Chatter web page, with a little cutting and pasting to fill out each print page. The web page is available before the Chatter is mailed.
If you would like to receive an email link to the latest issue instead of a mailed print copy, send an email to chatter_editor@yahoo.com. You can resume receiving a mailed print copy at any time, just by sending another email.

Sharing this complete Chatter issue with a friend is simple. Just let them scan this code into their smartphone! Or, you can check it out for yourself.