|Archive available at http://www.ChicagoCoinClub.org/|
|Volume 60 No. 8||August 2014|
The planning work is done — all that remains is the final setup. Trying to determine the best day to attend? Look at the online Schedule for the latest details; it can be found at http://www.worldsfairofmoney.com/schedule.aspx
I welcome, for the September Chatter, reports from any of the events, meetings, or presentations that you attended — report on the details, atmosphere, or whatever struck you. The ANA will return here in the summer 2015, and then it is off to Anaheim, California in 2016, and Denver, Colorado in 2017 — sites farther in the future have not been announced.
Remember, August 5-9!
The 1147th meeting of the Chicago Coin Club was held July 9, 2014 in the Chicago Bar Association Building, 321 S. Plymouth Court, Downtown Chicago. President Elliott Krieter called the meeting to order at 6:45 PM with an attendance of 29 members and 3 guests: Ed Kedzie, Andy He, and Paul Keyser.
A motion was passed to accept the June Minutes as published
in the Chatter, with the following correction:
• What read “Die charges are $2,200 and will be partially offset by donations.”
• Should read: “A motion was passed authorizing the Treasurer to pay $2,200 for die charges which will be also offset by donations.”
Treasurer Steve Zitowsky gave a detailed report for the month of June: revenue of $40,591.00, expenses of $29,976.52, net income of $10,614.48, total assets of $35,230.62 held in Life Membership $2,110.00 and member equity $33,120.62. After several questions, a motion was passed to accept his report.
The application for membership of Chuck Prock received a second reading and a motion was passed to accept him into the Club. The application of Paul Keyser received first reading.
Under Old Business:
No New Business was conducted.
The Secretary announced the featured program for the Club’s meeting, Saturday, August 9, 1 PM at the ANA Convention, will be Robert Hurst on Recovered Coins from the Sunken 1715 Treasure Fleet. The September 10 program will be given by Dr. Lawrence J. Lee, of Lincoln, NE on 110 coins archaeologically recovered from Fort Atkinson (1819-1827), the first U.S. settlement west of the Mississippi.
David Greenstein was introduced as the evening’s featured speaker and delivered a program Coin Conservation and Doctoring. Following a question-and-answer period, David was presented with an engraved medal and ANA Educational Certificate.
Second V.P. Marc Stackler introduced the evening’s ten exhibitors. JOHN CONNOLLY: medals from 75th Anniversary of Granite City, IL; EUGENE FREEMAN: coins from micro nations of Sealand, Redonda and Westarctica; JAMES M. McMENAMIN: 3 Panamanian coins; PHIL CARRIGAN: Henri Ripstra tokens; DALE LUKANICH: 2 counterfeit bank notes; MARK WIECLAW: 3 ancient Roman coins and a two page ad from the Chicago Sun-Times selling “unsearched” rolls of coins; STEPHEN HUBER: auction catalog Richard L. Lissner Collecton; ROBERT LEONARD: series of nine Japanese Sen coin types; ROBERT FEILER: ancient stater from Aigina, and replica set of coins of the twelve Caesars; and MARC STACKLER: Bonos Electorales pro-Almazan.
Mark Wieclaw, inspired by the evening’s program, spoke briefly on the conservation and repair of ancient oil lamps.
The meeting was adjorned at 8:44 PM.
Carl Wolf, Secretary
a presentation by David Greenstein,
to our July 9, 2014 meeting
This is a controversial issue among collectors of modern coins — loosely defined as coins minted after 1500. At the start, David warned us that there is very little agreement as to the definition of the terms. As for motivation — that is simple — it boils down to money.
The collectors of expensive modern coins prefer original, unaltered pieces. Such modern coins actually exist — think of the original bags of Morgan dollars — but the odds diminish as the coin’s age increases. Since a coin cannot tell us what has been done to it, we have to use our eyes and knowledge to make the decision. Just as the definition of “original” can be debated, it can be hard to tell if a coin is original.
The grading services require a coin to have a certain amount of originality in order for the coin to be graded. In the marketplace, where original equals desirable, strictly original coins can trade at big premiums, while coins with “problems” trade at significant discounts (maybe as deep as 90% to 95% for damaged and severely altered coins). The above point is valid across all grades, but the recent popularity of registry sets has increased the desirability of coins in the highest grades possible. As more money enters the marketplace, coin doctoring, or suspicions of it, increases.
Some things are generally acceptable to do to a coin, and some things are not. Most believe a soak in pure acetone, followed by a rinse in distilled water, is acceptable; this removes material that is not chemically bonded to the coin’s metal. But be sure to use pure acetone — the laboratory grade stuff, without any trace metals — and in a well ventilated space.
The Professional Numimatists Guild considered the matter. PNG’s try in 2011 at a definition of doctoring, a detailed three page product from a large committee, was rejected by the membership; as David described it to us, the multitudes of detailed scenarios could be fodder for lawyers, but did not quickly yield clear and concise answers. A second attempt, written by David and two others, was approved by a clear majority — it was simple, consisting of only three points. The first two points were easy: no movement, addition, or altering of metal is allowed; no adding of any substance to improve appearance or value is allowed. Last to the list was: no intentional exposure that imparts toning is allowed.
There are some generally accepted practices that might seem to get close to the above three points. Such as dipping and point two; and coin holder toning and point three. Dipping refers to the use of a dilute acid to remove toning from a coin; this results in the removal of a very thin layer of material, both coin metal and some toning, from a coin. Most collectors want their silver coins bright white. When done once and by an experienced hand, the resulting coin is acceptable by the grading services; repeatedly dipping a coin will result in obvious signs on the coin, a coin which the grading services will only place in a slab marked “environmental damage.”
Since the characteristic toning produced from a long stay in a paper envelope or a cardboard album is acceptable in the market, efforts have been made in toning coins. To avoid running afoul of the third point above, placing the dipped coin in an album or envelope for awhile is okay, but efforts that involve smearing some concoction on a coin, and then baking it, are bad. In other words, subjecting a coin to more of the usual storage and handling is acceptable; everything beyond that is wrong. What about putty? David showed us a picture of an 1879 Stella (a U.S. $4 gold coin) with discoloration on Liberty’s face, from forehead down to the neck. He identified it as due to putty, and he sold it with full disclosure to another dealer. Full disclosure, of all you know, is needed whenever selling something.
David has not seen everything yet — for example, the rumored lasering process; some say it is used to remove hairlines from proof gold coins. But he has seen many things, and showed us some examples. He has seen the results of excessive dipping (by a product such as Jewel Luster); a washed-out appearance on circulated coins can result. Using ammonia can leave the coin with a terrible odor, as well as a dull and washed out white that is similar in appearance to that from using Jewel Luster. Baking Soda is a product that can be a good tool as well as a bad tool. After dipping a coin and rinsing it with water, any residual traces of acid can result in problems; here, using baking soda to neutralize any remaining acid is a good tool. But rubbing and scouring a coin with an abrasive such as baking soda is a bad tool.
The grading services are careful when evaluating a coin with heavy toning, as there is no certain way of telling if there are any marks (from either honest wear or scratches from mishandling) on the coin. Will dipping improve the look of a coin? You do not know ahead of time. It happens often enough to keep the practice alive. Dave showed us a picture of an 1870-CC half dollar, with dark mottled toning and in an AU58 NGC slab, that had been sold for $54,000. Then he showed a picture of the same coin after dipping, now white and in an MS61 slab, and he told us it sold for $88,000. Or consider the tale of a 1923-S Standing Liberty quarter that had been in stock for years, slabbed as MS65FH — they sent it in four times for regrading, but it came back the same — they sold the coin to someone who dipped and resubmitted it — it graded MS66FH on the first try — after an auction appearance, the new owner submitted it — now it is in MS66+FH plastic.
David also covered a number of practices related to copper coins, both from the commercial side and from the Carly American Coppers (EAC) club side — but unfortunately my deadline for writing this is near. New to me was how the commercially available coin detergent named MS70 is fairly safe on gold and silver coins, but leaves a copper coin with a purple or blue toning. Even though it is artificial, it is accepted: some collectors love it, the grading services slab it, and CAC will sticker BROWN slabs with this appearance. All because some proof Indian Head cents came by the toning naturally, from original shipping paper?
David concluded by stating there are no conclusions — it all comes down to personal preferences. But numismatics might never reach the stage of restoration and repair as found in the art world.
|CSNS Convention||Chicago Coin Company|
|CPMX & CICF||Harlan J. Berk, Ltd.|
Items shown at our July 9, 2014 meeting,
reported by Marc Stackler
July 16, 2014
The ninth meeting of the 2014 Chicago ANA Convention Committee was called to order at 6:00 PM by Assistant Host Chairman Jeffrey Rosinia on Wednesday, July 16, 2014 in the offices of Harlan J. Berk Ltd., 77 W. Washington, Downtown Chicago. The following members were present: Paul Hybert, Sharon Blocker, Marc Stackler, Dale Lukanich, Steve Zitowsky, Eugene Freeman, Elliott Krieter, Mark Wieclaw, Scott McGowan, and Carl Wolf
Club President Elliott Krieter thanked everyone for all the work and time they put into planning for the event.
The meeting was adjourned at 7:21 PM.
Carl Wolf, Secretary
Chicago Coin Club
|Date:||August 9, 2014, First session|
|Location:||On the last day of the ANA Convention, which is held at the Donald E. Stephens Convention Center, 5555 N. River Road, Rosemont, IL. No admission charge for anyone on the last day of the convention.|
|Featured speaker:||Bob Hurst — Treasures from the 1715 Spanish Fleet|
On July 31, 1715 a hurricane sunk 11 treasure-laden Spanish galleons off the coast of Florida, near present day Vero Beach. Over 1,000 people perished and a fortune in gold, silver, and jewels was lost. Spain recovered some of the treasure, but a great deal was left on the ocean floor. Coins are still recovered today almost 300 years later! This program is for those who love stories of finding lost treasures. Be prepared to see images of fantastic coins, and hear unbelievable recovery stories. Bob Hurst is from Florida, and purchased and sold these treasure coins for 20 years. His presentation includes photos of coins housed in the Florida State Museum Collection. Mark your calendar and be prepared to be amazed!
Everyone attending the Saturday Chicago Coin Club meeting at the upcoming ANA convention will receive a souvenir card and history of the tickets from the Columbian Exposition in 1893. The ticket displaying an American Indian Chief is courtesy of Heritage Auction Archives. Only 100 consecutively numbered cards will be issued. After distribution at the meeting, the remaining cards will be sold for $5.00 each ($1.00 for postage if ordering by mail).
|Date:||August 13, 2014, Second session|
At the Chicago Bar Association, 321 S. Plymouth Court, 3rd floor meeting room. Please remember the security measures at our meeting building: everyone must show their photo-ID and register at the guard’s desk. Nearby parking: South Loop Self Park, 318 South Federal Street; that is two short blocks west of our meeting site. Note: Their typical rate of $33 is reduced to $9 if you eat at the Plymouth Restaurant, 327 S. Plymouth Court (next to our meeting site at the CBA) — show the restaurant your parking ticket, and ask for a parking voucher. The restaurant offers standard sandwiches, burgers, and salads for members who want to meet for dinner. Another before-meeting favorite of some members is the Berghoff Restaurant, located on Adams, just west of State.
|Featured speaker:||— to be announced|
Unless stated otherwise, our regular monthly CCC Meeting is in downtown Chicago on the second Wednesday of the month; the starting time is 6:45PM.
|August||2-4||PNG/ANA Numismatic Tradeshow. Admission by invitation or $6; details on the PNG Events Calendar at http://www.pngdealers.com/|
|August||5-9||ANA in Rosemont, at Donald E. Stephens Convention Center. Admission is free for ANA members — for details, see http://www.worldsfairofmoney.com.|
|August||6||Chicago Coin Club 95th Anniversary dinner, in Rosemont. This is not a full meeting — it is a social event for members and guests: $50 per person, reception starting at 6PM, and dinner starting at 7PM. Cliff Mishler will speak on The Importance of Clubs in Numismatics. More details will be announced.|
|August||8||IPMS Meeting - 2-4pm at the ANA convention,
which is held at the Donald E. Stephens Convention Center, 5555 North River Road, Rosemont, IL.
Scheduled to present:
Dr. Leon Saryan on Money in Armenia Prior to the Introduction of Coinage
Robert D. Leonard, Jr. on Viking Hacksilver
Bruce Smith on Discovery of Zinc (circa. 1400 AD) & the Role it Plays in Identifying Primitive Money Forgeries
Karl Mayle on Counterfeit Detection Using Handheld X-Ray Spectrometer
|August||9||CCC Meeting - 1pm at the ANA convention,
which is held at the Donald E. Stephens Convention Center, 5555 North River Road, Rosemont, IL.
No admission charge for our meeting.
Featured Speaker - Bob Hurst on Treasures from the 1715 Spanish Fleet
|August||13||CCC Meeting - Featured Speaker - to be announced|
|September||10||CCC Meeting - Featured Speaker - Dr. Lawrence J. Lee on Archaeologically Recovered Coins from Fort Atkinson (1819-1827)|
|September||11-13||ILNA convention at the Holiday Inn-Tinley Park Convention Center, 18451 Convention Center Road, Tinley Park, IL 60477. Details, including a schedule of groups and speakers, will be available at http://www.ilnaclub.info|
All correspondence pertaining to Club matters
should be addressed to the Secretary and mailed to:
CHICAGO COIN CLUB
P.O. Box 2301
CHICAGO, IL 60690
|Elliott Krieter||- President|
|Richard Lipman||- First Vice President|
|Marc Stackler||- Second Vice President|
|William Burd||- Archivist|
|Other positions held are:|
|Jeffrey Rosinia||- Immediate Past President|
|Carl Wolf||- Secretary|
|Steve Zitowsky||- Treasurer|
|Paul Hybert||- Chatter Editor|
|Robert Feiler||- ANA Club Representative|
The print version of the Chatter is simply a printout of the Chatter web page,
with a little cutting and pasting to fill out each print page.
The web page is available before the Chatter is mailed.
If you would like to receive an email link to the latest issue instead of a mailed print copy send an email to email@example.com. You can resume receiving a mailed print copy at any time, just by sending another email.