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Volume 58 No. 6 June 2012

Minutes of the 1121st Meeting

The 1121st meeting of the Chicago Coin Club was held May 9, 2012 in the Chicago Bar Association Building, 321 S. Plymouth Court, Downtown Chicago. President Jeffrey Rosinia called the meeting to order at 6:45 PM with an attendance of 21 members and 1 guest, Steve Harrison, President of the Illinois Numismatic Association.

A motion was passed to accept the April Minutes as published in the Chatter. Treasurer Steve Zitowsky gave a detailed report showing April income of $933.50, expenses of $681.40 and total assets of $19,686.49 held in Life Membership $1,670.00 and member equity $18,016.49. A motion was passed to approve the report.

The application for membership of Steve Harrison received first reading. Following the second readings of the membership applications of Anthony (Tony) LaPelusa, Dale Carlson, and Brett Irick, a motion was passed to accept them into membership. Correspondence was received from Cynthia Tibbs who is dropping her membership after a move out-of-state. David Bynum requested membership reinstatement. The Treasurer reported 17 members with outstanding 2012 dues.

The May 8 issue of Numismatic News was displayed showing Clifford Mishler’s column featuring the Club’s featured speaker’s medal and his experience at the Club’s March 14th meeting. Thank you correspondence was read from the Central States Numismatic Association for the Club’s participation at their April convention. The Club’s ANA Life Membership card was shown and passed on to William Burd, the Club’s Archivist.

Mark Wieclaw, Host Chairman of the 2013 Chicago ANA Convention, delivered a general report on the upcoming 2012 Philadelphia ANA Convention. The next scheduled meeting of the 2013 Convention Committee is June 20.

First V.P. Elliott Krieter introduced featured speaker David Simpson who spoke on “Crowns & Ryals of the Stuart Monarchs. Following a question and answer period, Elliott presented David with an ANA Educational Certificate and an engraved Club medal.

Second V.P. Rich Lipman announced the evening’s nine exhibitors: PHIL CARRIGAN a love token and separate membership medals from the Chicago Numismatic Society & Early American Coppers; DAVID GUMM 1824/2 U.S. Large Cent; JEFF ROSINIA a 3-inch 1891-93 Columbian Exposition Medal designed by St. Gaudens & Barber; BOB WALLACE 5 ancient Greek coins from Eion, Thasos, & Neapolis; RICHARD LIPMAN 6 U.S. Demand and Legal Tender Notes & a double-printed $5 note; MARK WIECLAW ancient Athenian tetradrachm fouree emergency money, a Roman hemidrachm struck under Trajan (98-117AD), a pop-out 1908 Indian cent, & a Roman oil lamp with mold; TONY LaPELUSA 7 piece set of 2.5-inch medals honoring NASA’s moon landings; ROBERT LEONARD 2 numismatic books on Nova Scotia, a 1721 Pistareen, & a cut ¼ Pistareen (1737); and ROBERT WEINSTEIN 5 Chicago merchant/advertising tokens.

The meeting was adjourned at 8:58 PM with the next meeting scheduled at 6:45 PM, June 13, 2012 at the same location.

Respectfully Submitted,
Carl Wolf, Secretary

Speaker’s Wor[l]d
Crowns & Ryals of the Stuart Monarchs

a presentation by David Simpson
to our May 9, 2012 meeting

David has collected the coins of Scotland for many years; for 30 years his specialty has been the coinage of the Stuarts as Scottish monarchs. He started the program with background historical information, both political and numismatic, prior to the production of large coins in Scotland. Then he used an ANA slide program to show beautiful examples of the large silver coins produced in Scotland only towards the end of the Stuart era.

The Norman invasion of England in 1066 drove some Anglo-Saxons to Scotland, where they brought along their use of coins. The first Scottish monarch to mint coins was David I (1124-1153), but these were small silver pennies of 21 grains; these hammered pieces were crudely struck, with a crude portrait of the monarch and crude legends, and not very round. Other denominations, such as half penny and groat (four pence) followed; their value started similar to the corrsponding English pieces, but many revaluations resulted in a Scottish shilling equaling only an English penny by the 17th century.

The first shown coin was from the 1250s; it featured a crowned Alexander III with a sceptre on the obverse and a cross on the reverse. This is from the Aberdeen mint, one of the 16 mints used during his reign. Another coin from Alexander III has stars and motes on the reverse; the number of points on stars and motes is believed to identify the mint. The title starts on the obverse and ends on the reverse. A groat of David II, from the 1300s, is from the Edinburgh mint and has two concentric legends. A groat of James III (1460-1488) from the Edinburgh mint is more artistic than the others, having a half-facing bust of the monarch. The above pieces showed how the striking and design improved over the years.

A brief sidenote helped explain why there were so many Scottish monarchs in a short time. James I was murdered, II killed by burst cannon, III murdered, IV killed, V killed, Mary Queen of Scots beheaded, and James VI died of old age in 1625. This last monarch became King James I of England after the death of Queen Elizabeth I in 1603. Another sidenote mentioned many of the Scottish denominations that used names from other countries. Aside from the English influences, we find pistole from Portugal, real from Spain, ducat from Venice, mark from German states, testoon from France, and dollar. And the unicorn and bawbee are of Scottish origin.

David then used the first 16 slides in the ANA’s Slide Set #66, The Ryals and Crowns of the Stuart Monarchs, to show some marvelous specimens of those coins. The accompanying program is attributed to John S. Davenport, and David dated it to the 1960s. The first Scottish ryals (pronounced the same as the Spanish reals) were issued in 1565 under Mary, who had become Queen of Scots at age one week following the death of her father, James V, in 1542. A 1565 ryal of 30 shillings has busts of Mary and her second husband, Henry, facing each other; the reverse has a crowned royal coat of arms. The arms were moved to the obverse on the type used 1565-1567, but the most noted feature is on the reverse: a turtle climbing a crowned tree. The third type, after Henry’s death, has only Mary’s name. After Mary fled to England in 1567, her year-old son became king as James VI; during his long lifetime, many coins were issued in his name.

A ryal of 30 shillings was issued from 1565-1571 with a crowned sword prominent on the reverse, along with a hand pointing to the the value of XXX. The obverse was slightly changed from the last of Mary’s coinage, using his name (rendered as Iacobus). The 2 mark of 24 shillings, from 1578-1580, was a smaller coin; the letters I and R were moved from aside the obverse arms to aside a central crowned thistle on the reverse. In 1582, a 40 shillings coin has a crowned half bust of the 15 year old monarch holding a sword on the obverse, and the usual arms and date on the reverse. His last issue before becoming king of England was a 30 shillings that was generally a smaller version of the prior piece; it was issued 1582-1586, and we saw one dated 1583.

As James I of England, he still issued Scottish coins. A Scottish £3 of 60 shillings has the king on horseback on the obverse and the coat of arms on the reverse. This general design was used from 1604 to 1625, but there was one change made to the reverse shield. A similar design was used by his son, Charles I, on his 60 shilling coins from 1629 to 1636. The appearance of the coinage greatly improved after Briot came from France with new technology — a screw press. The well struck and undated pieces of 1637 changed the legends and the direction the horse faces. There was no Scottish coinage during the Civil War, but it resumed after Charles I’s son became king Charles II.

The first issue of Charles II has a bust facing right on the obverse and the reverse has the arms in a cruciform pattern. The value of 4 marks is not stated on the coin, but the value of 53 (shillings) and 4 (pence) appears at the center of the reverse of this type issued from 1664 to 1675; the shown coin was dated 1674. An example, dated 1674, of the second issue has the bust facing left. After Charles’ death, his brother became king as James II; he fled the country after four years, before any official coin was issued. However, the dies for a 60 shilling coin dated 1688 had been created, and examples were struck in 1828. William and Mary (daughter of James II) became joint rulers, and one type of the 60 shilling coin was produced for them — it has both of their busts on the obverse. Following Mary’s death in 1694, William ruled alone until his death in 1702; no crown coin was produced solely for him.

Anne, the younger daughter of James II became queen in 1702. Her Scottish coins of 1707 and 1708 have the same design as her English coins — the only distinguishing mark is the E indicating the Edinburgh mint. Her death in 1714 ended the Stuart line officially. The younger half brother of Mary and Anne landed in Scotland, but the planned 1716 coronation never occurred; a 1716 pattern was finally struck for James VIII in 1828.

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Show and Tell

Items shown at our May 9, 2012 meeting.

  1. Phil Carrigan started with a clarification regarding his exhibit from last month. Among his observations on S.M. Thomson of Bantford, Ontario was that he was member number 469 of the ANA. That is wrong. Membership number 469 had been assigned in 1902, while Thomson joined in 1909 (and given number 1099). The source of the error? His dues receipt had been stamped with #469, but that was a receipt sequence number. The ANA sure has much material in their archives! Then Phil showed items acquired at EAC in Buffalo, and at Central States in Schaumburg:
  2. David Gumm an 1824 over 2 Large Cent, grading XF, showing significant die cracks on the reverse. Two of the five varieties from 1824 are overdates. This coin is an example of the common N1 variety, and David showed the subtle differences, on the reverse, that distinguish this from the rarer N5 variety: just a few leaf tips slightly moved with respect to the legend letter above each tip. He has looked for an example of N5, but none found as of yet.
  3. A large slab caught the eye of Jeff Rosinia at a recent show. Inside is a buffed up 3-inch medal from the Columbian Exposition, with an obverse with the name of St. Gaudens and a reverse with the name of Morgan; two contemporary artists and engravers who were more competitors than collaborators.
  4. Bob Wallace showed five ancient silver coins from three coastal towns of northern Greece: He also showed photographs of three small coins, of the first Thasos, first Eion, and Neapolis types as listed above, that are holed and worn. These three coins are common and commonly have a single hole, of similar size, and located where the coin is thin. What can we make of a large number of holed small coins, of similar types and dates and from three nearby cities, when their large coins are not holed? The holes are too large and regular to be test punches. The most common explanation is use in jewelry, but there are too many such coins and the holes are placed anywhere, rather than according to the design of the coins. Bob suggests that these very common small coins were holed to be strung together, in order to facilitate handling and counting. The piercing of only worn coins suggests that new coins were more esteemed.
  5. Richard Lipman continued from last month:
  6. Mark Wieclaw showed a range of items:
  7. At an antique show, Tony LaPelusa acquired a set of seven high relief medals for the lunar missions of Apollo 11 through 17. Made by Medallic Arts, each obverse includes busts of the three astronauts, while the obverses are more unique and maybe as interesting. Tony also showed his badge, from a 1996 convention, that had been autographed by James Lovell (Apollo 13).
  8. Robert Leonard started with newly acquired books of old printed material, and ended with small Spanish coins.
  9. Robert Weinstein showed advertising tokens from Chicago.

Senior Club Member Interviews

In 1993 the Chicago Coin Club formed a committee to plan for the upcoming 75th Anniversary. To celebrate the occasion plans were made for a lavish banquet and the issuance of an impressive medal. Also, Carl Wolf suggested senior members of the club be interviewed and a video be produced. These members had stories to tell. They had recollections of early club activity, world class exhibits, and friendships with icons in the numismatic community.

Carl’s project was started. He chose those to be interviewed, prepared a list of questions he wanted to ask, and began the process of scheduling the interviews. Most were performed at his home. Others were done at the Bismarck Hotel in downtown Chicago prior to the start of the 899th Meeting Banquet on December 8, 1993.

Club member Robert Weinstein recorded the interviews using Sony Beta professional camera equipment borrowed from his employer at the time.

After the interviews were completed, the next step was to edit the material and add interesting and related background scenery of Chicago landmarks.

This step was delayed and the 75th Anniversary came and went. The interviews remained unfinished and sat on a shelf for several years. As time went by, technologies improved, outdating earlier recording equipment, and making it difficult to work with the original tapes. It was decided we needed to convert the information to an updated format. Several inquiries were made and recommendations considered. Conversion costs were prohibitive. Finally in 2007 Bob Feiler, after much effort, found a company that had the old Beta equipment in storage and was willing to take on the job of converting our tapes to DVD. Feiler’s effort was a huge success in so far as we have saved these interviews from deteriorating in the old format. They are now available for current and future club members to enjoy. The transfer process allowed approximately 20 minutes of an interview to fit on one DVD. If an interview was longer, it continued on another DVD.

These DVDs are in raw, unedited format. There is background noise, questions and stories being repeated with the intention of editing out parts, Carl’s voice guiding and prompting the conversation intended to be removed during the editing process. And, there are some lighting and sound issues throughout.

With all the imperfections, these are still engaging interviews with much insight into the world of numismatics, and the Chicago Coin Club in particular, from the 1950s thru the 1970s.

The DVDs are now in the Club Archives and are available for loan to any club member.

List of Available DVDs
1. Chester Poderski 8 min.
2. Tom Nolan 2.5 min.
3. Tom Nolan 22 min.
4. Chester Poderski 23 min.
5. 75th Anniv. Banquet 20 min.
6. 75th Anniv. Banquet — Misc.
7. Bill Pettit 20 min.
8. Bill Pettit
Harry Flower
4 min.
15 min.
9. 899th Mtg Banquet 8 min.
10. Harry X Boosel 19 min.
11. Harry X Boosel 10 min.
12. Michael Dolnick 20 min.
13. Michael Dolnick
James R. Budd
11 min.
9 min.
14. James Budd 20 min.
15. David Denis 20 min.
16. David Denis 20 min.
17. CICF: Robert Van Ryzan
CICF: R. Leonard and H.J. Berk
14 min.
3 min.
18. Charles Ryant, Jr. 20 min.
19. Charles Ryant, Jr. 21 min.
20. Harry Flower
Charles Ricard
12 min.
3 min.
21. Charles Ricard 18 min.
22. Photos of club medals
William A. Burd  Archivist
6455 W. Archer Ave
Chicago, IL 60638

Our 1122nd Meeting

Date:June 13, 2012
Time:6:45 PM
Location:Downtown Chicago
At the Chicago Bar Association, 321 S. Plymouth Court, 3rd floor meeting room. Please remember the security measures at our meeting building: everyone must show their photo-ID and register at the guard’s desk. Nearby parking: South Loop Self Parking Ramp at Van Buren & Federal Streets; that is two short blocks west of our meeting site. Note: Their typical rate of $29 is reduced to $6 if you eat at the Plymouth Restaurant, 327 S. Plymouth Court (next to our meeting site at the CBA), show them your parking ticket, and ask the restaurant for a parking voucher. The restaurant offers standard sandwiches, burgers, and salads for members who want to meet for dinner.
Featured speaker:Andrew Reiber - Box Thalers and Dollars

Important Dates

June 13 CCC Meeting - Featured Speaker - Andrew Reiber on Box Thalers and Dollars
July 11 CCC Meeting - Featured Speaker - to be announced
August 7-11 121st Anniversary Convention of the American Numismatic Association at the Philadelphia Convention Center. For details, refer to their website, remember, ANA will be at Rosemont in 2013 through 2015.
August 8 CCC Meeting - Featured Speaker - to be announced

Chatter Matter

All correspondence pertaining to Club matters should be addressed to the Secretary and mailed to:

P.O. Box 2301

Club Officers

Jeffrey Rosinia- President
Elliott Krieter- First Vice President
Richard Lipman- Second Vice President
William Burd- Archivist
Directors:Robert Feiler
Eugene Freeman
Marc Stackler
Carl Wolf
Other positions held are:
Carl Wolf- Secretary
Steve Zitowsky- Treasurer
Paul Hybert- Chatter Editor
Robert Feiler- ANA Club Representative

Contacting Your Editor / Chatter Delivery Option

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