Archive available at
Volume 58 No. 7 July 2012

Minutes of the 1122nd Meeting

The 1122nd meeting of the Chicago Coin Club was held June 13, 2012 in the Chicago Bar Association Building, 321 S. Plymouth Court, Downtown Chicago. President Jeffrey Rosinia called the meeting to order at 6:45 PM with an attendance of 22 members and 4 guests: Andrew Reiber, Vice President of the Illinois Numismatic Association, Darren Hooper, Dian Georgiev, and LuAnne Freeman.

A motion was passed to accept the May Minutes as published in the Chatter. Treasurer Steve Zitowsky gave a detailed report showing May income of $650.00, expenses of $100.00 and total assets of $20,236.49 held in Life Membership $1,670.00 and member equity $18,566.49. A motion was passed to approve the report.

Following the second reading of Steve Harrison’s membership application, a motion was passed to accept him into membership. First readings were held for the applications of Darren Hooper and Dian Georgiev. Following the reading of members with outstanding 2012 dues, a motion was made to drop them from the rolls: LeRoy Gayden, Greg Greene, Bernard Schwartz, A Ronald Sirna, and Russell Wajda.

Under correspondence, a letter from the American Numismatic Association informing the members the Chicago Coin Club would receive a 100-year membership plaque at the upcoming Philadelphia Convention. It was decided that Past President Robert D. Leonard, Jr., would receive the award on the Club’s behalf.

Mark Wieclaw, Host Chairman of the 2013 Chicago ANA Convention, announced all chairpersons were appointed and asked for members to volunteer to serve as assistant chairs. The appointment of Ray Dillard, Fenton, Michigan, as Honorary Convention Chairman was announced. The next committee meeting will be June 20, 6 PM, Offices of Harlan J. Berk Ltd, 300 West Washington, 13th Floor, Downtown Chicago.

Eugene Freeman spoke on his work at organizing a Boy Scout Clinic at the 2013 ANA Convention for scouts to earn their coin collecting merit badge. He spoke of how he hopes to have a new activity patch created for just the ANA Convention, so even scouts who already have the coin collecting merit badge would attend to earn this new patch.

First V.P. Elliott Krieter introduced featured speaker Andrew Reiber who spoke on Box Thalers & Coins. Following a question and answer period,Elliott presented Andy with an ANA Educational Certificate and an engraved Club medal.

Second V.P. Rich Lipman announced the evening’s ten exhibitors: EUGENE FREEMAN coins from French Colonies in America, and gold escudo overdate from Colombia; CHUCK KNOX 50th anniversary Pearl Harbor commemorative coin set & $1 Hawaii note; JOHN CONNOLLY 6 coin club medals;ROBERT D. LEONARD, JR. ANA Coin Week token, and Medieval coinage of Europe; RICHARD LIPMAN four $20 U.S. gold certificates; ROBERT FEILER cut-out coin jewelry & German box thaler; DALE LUKANICH Virginia Treasury notes, 2012 ANA Convention token, and 1.5 nummi of Justin I; MARK WIECLAW 3 tetradrachms from Syracuse, and a sestertius of Domitian with an obverse brockage; ROBERT WEINSTEIN Chicago area coin club medals; and ROBERT KULYS large sized bank note, proof 2012 silver dollar, and 1944 CCC 25th Anniversary medal.

The meeting was adjourned at 8:50 PM with the next meeting scheduled at 6:45 PM, July 11, 2012 at the same location.

Respectfully Submitted,
Carl Wolf, Secretary

Speaker’s Wor[l]d
Box Thalers and Dollars

a presentation by Andrew Reiber
to our June 13, 2012 meeting

Andrew started collecting box dollars 14 years ago. In the program, he showed examples of the three major styles of turning two coins (or medals) into one box dollar. Along the way, he also showed some examples of what appeared to be a stack of coins. The earliest style used two coins with an external hinge; the seam is very noticeable. The second style gave threaded edges to both pieces (think pipe threads): one coin’s edge and one side were left untouched, but the other side was cut out to near the rim, and threads were cut on the inside of the edge; another coin had its diameter reduced, threads cut into the outside of the edge, and one side hollowed out; finally, the two pieces would be threaded together. The third style, introduced in the late 19th century, used an internal ring with a double hinge; the result was reminiscent of a clamshell, with no external hinges.

The first example shown to us was a threaded 1797 British penny. The original is a large, thick coin, so there was plenty of room to work with. A glance at the outside threading on the reverse half shows fine threading, a total of three or four threads in the thickness of that piece. When assembled, the piece looks like one coin. That was followed by a box thaler made from medieval European thalers; it has an external hinge, and a glance at the edge shows two original coins that are not perfectly stacked. Sometimes, these pieces are found with a suspension loop; there was no attempt at making it appear as an ordinary, original coin. The next item appeared to be a stack of 10 coins, with the top and bottom being 1909 Edward VII rupees; a nice example of a threaded piece.

A Belgian piece showed considerable wear; most likely from its long use as a pocket piece, and not because it was made from worn coins. Another piece showed a manufacturing error — a small irregularly shaped hole resulted from hollowing out too deeply. One piece contained mica discs on which hat, hair, and clothes were painted; they were to be placed over a picture of a person, possibly a child’s toy. A piece from the early 1800s used medals struck for this purpose, and it contains painted round paper slips that tell the story of a famine. A threaded 1811 French 5 francs has May 1823 engraved inside. And a mass produced item from World War I shows war scenes on many round pictures connected as an accordian.

It was not just European coins that were made into box dollars; among the U.S. coins that Andrew showed us were Morgan and Trade dollars, with Trade dollars extensively used for this. Many pieces were produced during the Columbian Exposition era, which also saw the introduction of the internal ring with a double hinge. The ring was placed inside one hollowed out coin and the other coin was fastened to the hinge. This method seems to be easier than threading two coins, but the two pieces still would fit poorly if the wokers were not skilled and careful. The use of the internal ring was mainly in the US. A shown 1879 Morgan dollar is spring loaded, but the openning pin is broken. A medal was made at the Columbian Expo expressly to be used as a case — from the inside, the obverse design is seen incuse. A Columbian Half contains a photo from the 1930s; using clothing and hair styles, as well as the photo print technology, a skilled person can confidently date a photo to within ten years.

As a collector, Andrew looks for many things. Uniqueness counts, but also the quality of the work as well as working order and completeness. A round piece of mica usually protected the image, and collectors hope to find all pieces in sharp condition. These pieces are noticeably lighter than an original coin; Andrew once was handling a slabbed Trade Dollar that seemed light — a close examination of the coin showed a circle on one side, in the field just inside the dentils. He bought it, openned the slab, and found he had a nice box dollar. Of course condition and quality are very important in determining price, but a good box dollar sells for more than the would the underlying coin. People collect these in many different ways: by underlying coin, by type of enclosed object, and by military uniform are just a few. A shown British 2 florin of Victoria holds the picture of a man in military uniform, while a stack piece has a Dutch coin on top and a US Large Cent on the bottom; a small watch is in the stack. That piece led to a short discussion of how people carried watches before wristwatches.

There are no maker’s mark on these pieces, but then Andrew collects only the pieces that were not mass produced. There is a small collector base for these; look closely in a dealer’s case, and you might find one waiting for you!

Current Advertisers

CSNS Convention Chicago Coin Company
CPMX & CICF Harlan J. Berk, Ltd.

Show and Tell

Items shown at our June 13, 2012 meeting.

  1. Eugene Freeman showed some recent acquisitions:
  2. Chuck Knox brought back some souvenirs from a trip to Hawaii.
  3. John Connolly showed recently issued coin club medals:
  4. Robert Leonard showed a range of items before his main theme, coins of one country found circulating in another:
  5. Richard Lipman showed the evolving design of the large size $20 gold certificates: Then Rich took us back to the first of the notes, and asked us, “Who is this bearded man?” The answer is President James Garfield, who died in office in 1881, two months after he had been shot. After a near-death experience as a young adult focused his attention, Garfield found success in the fields of education, politics, and the military.
  6. Bob Feiler show a range of items:
  7. Dale Lukanich showed a range of items:
  8. Mark Wieclaw showed ancient coins:
  9. Robert Weinstein showed items from various coin clubs:
  10. Robert Kulys showed a range of items:

Minutes of the 2013 Chicago ANA Convention Committee

June 20, 2012

The second meeting of the 2013 Chicago ANA Convention Committee was called to order by Host Chairman Mark Wieclaw on Wednesday June 20, 2012 at 6:00 PM in the offices of Harlan J. Berk, 77 W. Washington, Suite 1320, Downtown Chicago.

The following members were present: Dale Lukenich, Sharon Blocker, Robert Feiler, Harlan J. Berk, Richard Lipman, Quentin Burrows, Tony LaPelusa, Ernest Armstrong, Steve Zitowsky, and Carl Wolf. Harlan was given a warm round of applause for providing dinner from Reza’s Restaurant and parking vouchers for those parked in the Wabash-Randolph Self Parking Ramp at 20 East Randolph.

Committee Reports:

  1. Carl Wolf, Volunteer Committee Chairman
  2. Eugene Freeman, Scout Committee Chairman
  3. Dale Lukanich, Money Talks Chairman
  4. Richard Lipman, Page Chairman
  5. Marc Ricard, Exhibit Chairman
  6. Promotion Material Discussion
  7. Finances

Members agreed to meet again on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 at 6:00 PM in the offices of Harlan J. Berk, 77 W. Washington, Suite 1320, Downtown Chicago.

The meeting was adjourned at 7:24 PM.

Respectfully Submitted,
Carl Wolf, Secretary
Chicago Coin Club

Our 1123rd Meeting

Date:July 11, 2012
Time:6:45 PM
Location:Downtown Chicago
At the Chicago Bar Association, 321 S. Plymouth Court, 3rd floor meeting room. Please remember the security measures at our meeting building: everyone must show their photo-ID and register at the guard’s desk. Nearby parking: South Loop Self Park, 318 South Federal Street; that is two short blocks west of our meeting site. Note: Their typical rate of $29 is reduced to $6 if you eat at the Plymouth Restaurant, 327 S. Plymouth Court (next to our meeting site at the CBA), show them your parking ticket, and ask the restaurant for a parking voucher. The restaurant offers standard sandwiches, burgers, and salads for members who want to meet for dinner. Another before-meeting favorite of some members is the Ceres Restaurant, located inside the Board of Trade Building, at LaSalle and Jackson.
Featured speaker:David Greenstein - The Role of Coin Dealers in the Digital Age

Without exception and on a daily basis, the Internet is affecting the lives of every member of the Chicago Coin Club. It has also affected the coin business. Numismatic information is readily available. Auction records, price guides, etc can be found with a few clicks of the computer mouse. There is so much information, the results can be misleading and problematic. Join us when David Greenstein delivers a PowerPoint presentation on how coin dealers and collectors can make sense and manage the mountain of numismatic information in the digtal age. There is more than one way to use digital technology in numismatics.

Important Dates

July 11 CCC Meeting - Featured Speaker - David Greenstein on The Role of Coin Dealers in the Digital Age
August 7-11 121st Anniversary Convention of the American Numismatic Association at the Philadelphia Convention Center. For details, refer to their website, remember, ANA will be at Rosemont in 2013 through 2015.
August 8 CCC Meeting - Featured Speaker - to be announced
September 12 CCC Meeting - Featured Speaker - to be announced
September 13-15 ILNA convention at the Tinley Park Convention Center, 18501 S. Harlem Ave., Tinley Park, IL 60477. Details at

Chatter Matter

All correspondence pertaining to Club matters should be addressed to the Secretary and mailed to:

P.O. Box 2301

Club Officers

Jeffrey Rosinia- President
Elliott Krieter- First Vice President
Richard Lipman- Second Vice President
William Burd- Archivist
Directors:Robert Feiler
Eugene Freeman
Marc Stackler
Carl Wolf
Other positions held are:
Carl Wolf- Secretary
Steve Zitowsky- Treasurer
Paul Hybert- Chatter Editor
Robert Feiler- ANA Club Representative

Contacting Your Editor / Chatter Delivery Option

The print version of the Chatter is simply a printout of the Chatter web page, with a little cutting and pasting to fill out each print page. The web page is available before the Chatter is mailed.
If you would like to receive an email link to the latest issue instead of a mailed print copy send an email to You can resume receiving a mailed print copy at any time, just by sending another email.